Not getting benefit of captured wonder

Graethyenne

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
96
Hey Guys,

Before I post in bug reports I wanted to ask first. Basically I conquered Deli, where Ghandi had built Alhambra. The wonder didn't disappear or anything, and I think I got the GG points. But I never got the extra military card slot. Not right away, not when changing civics and not when changing governments. Later on I built Potela Palace and Big Ben (and had previously used Adam Smith) all of which worked normally (for which I am grateful as I am playing Greece and therefore got the 12 Olympians achievement anyway).

Thoughts?

Grae
 
Oh, so that is deliberate? Good to know (and thanks for saving me from looking silly on the bug forum)!

Yeah that seems weird....so you don't get policy card slots or instant units (like the apostles from that religious one). Any other wonder benefits that don't transfer? (I realize I am going beyond the scope of the title now, but I am curious).

Grae
 
Captured policy slot wonders don't provide policy slots to their new owners. I don't like that design decision at all, but that's how they did it.

I like it. There HAS to be SOME advantages to building wonders, rather than let others build them for you then capture them with your army.
 
Oh, so that is deliberate? Good to know (and thanks for saving me from looking silly on the bug forum)!

Yeah that seems weird....so you don't get policy card slots or instant units (like the apostles from that religious one). Any other wonder benefits that don't transfer? (I realize I am going beyond the scope of the title now, but I am curious).

Grae
Not sure but ones that probably don't transfer (and therefore can't be lost)
-Great Library (although the benefit needs to be much better)
-Terra cotta free promotion
 
Not sure but ones that probably don't transfer (and therefore can't be lost)
-Great Library (although the benefit needs to be much better)
-Terra cotta free promotion

Add Big Ben's treasury-doubling and policy card
Same for Forbidden City's policy card
And Potala Palace's policy card

I can't remember if the pyramids bonus of 1 extra builder charge transfers.

Hmm there's a pattern there, but there's probably more wonder effects too that don't benefit the conqueror.
 
Pyramids extra build does transfer - or did before the patch anyway - though the free builder doesn't, obviously. I guess the extra policy cards provided by these wonders are the equivalent of the extra units, tech boosts etc that other wonders give, or the Great People given by certain Civ V Wonders. Do you KEEP the policy cards if Alhambra etc are taken from you though?
 
Pyramids extra build does transfer - or did before the patch anyway - though the free builder doesn't, obviously. I guess the extra policy cards provided by these wonders are the equivalent of the extra units, tech boosts etc that other wonders give, or the Great People given by certain Civ V Wonders. Do you KEEP the policy cards if Alhambra etc are taken from you though?

AFAIK yes you keep the extra policies.

So essentially if we want to generalize, one-time boosts stay with the original civ who built the wonder, while on-going boosts are acquired with the wonder.
 
In Civ5, all wonders had a one-time and permanent effect. Sometimes the permanent effect was just yields per turn, though.

I'd like to see that system return. Might mod it in.
 
I just captured Big Ben from the German capital, but didn't get the extra Economic policy slot. Is that by design?

I still didn't get it even after defeating Frederick Barbarossa (Germany), and alternatively after convincing him to cede Aachen. Waited until the next turn and everything.

If the wonder that gave you an extra card slot is lost, do you not lose the slot? The wiki seems to think you do.
 
Moderator Action: Merged both threads dealing with capturing world wonders with policy slots
 
AFAIK yes you keep the extra policies.

So essentially if we want to generalize, one-time boosts stay with the original civ who built the wonder, while on-going boosts are acquired with the wonder.

Unfortunately, that generalization doesn't work because the policy slot is ongoing rather than one-time.
So
One-time effects+ policy slots
V
Non-policy slot ongoing effects
 
Unfortunately, that generalization doesn't work because the policy slot is ongoing rather than one-time.
So
One-time effects+ policy slots
V
Non-policy slot ongoing effects

Well technically, you get +1 policy slot only once, it's not an ongoing effect.

ie if you get one free builder (with the pyramids), that's also a one-time effect, even if the builder could technically stick around until the end of the game.
 
Well technically, you get +1 policy slot only once, it's not an ongoing effect.
No, because policy slots are normally ongoing effects. While you are in a government you have a certain set of policy slots, which you lose when switching to another government.

The amount of posts and threads about this are proof of how counterintuitive this is. You don't see people posting threads complaining about not getting two free techs when capturing Oxford, because that is clearly a one-time effect. Free policy slots are not.
 
No, because policy slots are normally ongoing effects. While you are in a government you have a certain set of policy slots, which you lose when switching to another government.

The amount of posts and threads about this are proof of how counterintuitive this is. You don't see people posting threads complaining about not getting two free techs when capturing Oxford, because that is clearly a one-time effect. Free policy slots are not.

I realize it's a matter of perspective and interpretation - however, to me it's "your civilization gets +1 political/military/economic/wildcard policy slot", which is a one-time effect in my opinion. Policies themselves are not one-time effects, however gaining a slot is. So from my point of view it's not a constant +1 policy slot that I could lose at any moment, but a one-time bonus that I get because I built that wonder or retired a great person.

I also realize the game is poor at wording MANY things, I'll have to agree about that.
 
I captured the wonder that gives all apostles martyr, and I'm the Kongo!

And of course it doesn't work.

Jip
 
I captured the wonder that gives all apostles martyr, and I'm the Kongo!

And of course it doesn't work.

Jip

Good to know, guess that one goes against my generalization.

I think they tried to make it actually worth it to build a wonder if you want its effects, rather than just conquer someone else's wonders...
 
I think they tried to make it actually worth it to build a wonder if you want its effects, rather than just conquer someone else's wonders...
I think it's more likely they didn't think about this at all and this is just how someone happened to write the code. The game is packed with "features" that clearly demonstrate the people at Firaxis have not thoroughly thought through all the different mechanics and how they interact.
 
Unfortunately, that generalization doesn't work because the policy slot is ongoing rather than one-time.
So
One-time effects+ policy slots
V
Non-policy slot ongoing effects
By Holo! Have you still not understood that you're just playing word-games with yourself that literally have nothing to do with the actual idea of "ongoing" or "one-time" effects? A policy slot is a one-time effect (getting an extra policy slot) that has then a permanent effect for the rest of the game (having one more slot than you would otherwise have), and depending on how you look at it, both are right. It's "Getting an extra Policy Slot." vs "Having an extra Policy Slot.", purely a matter of perspective when it comes to the semantics. But this whole discussion is meaningless, because this was never meant to be a discussion about semantics.

What people are referring to when they say one-time effect vs. permanent effect - or at least what I was referring to in that other thread, of which this here seems to be a continuation of - is how it works mechanically.

When you build the wonder that grants +1 Policy Slot you are granted a perk that says "This player has +1 Policy Slots!", then the wonder does literally nothing anymore. That's the important one-time effect. You get something. That something is then completely independent from the wonder. That's why when the wonder changes ownership you keep the policy card, because you lost the wonder, but you kept the perk (Civ 5 didn't use a perk-system, but it used the same idea of wonder-bonuses being mostly one-time effects that fire once, change something in the database and then are completely "decoupled" from the wonder itself).

Of course, this would be easy to change. Just make it so the perk transfers with the wonder when it changes ownership. Would probably be a bit of work to catch all the ways that wonders can change ownership, but it's possible in theory.

The argument against doing that is still consistency. Things like being granted a free Tech, being granted free Policies, free Great People, free Promotions, free Population, free Eurekas are all "one-time effects" mechanically, and not all of them can transfer in a reasonable manner. Technologies being an obvious one. How do you actually take a technology from another player? Do you set them back to the tech progress they had before? How do you deal with missing prereqs resulting from that? And did they really somehow lose the knowledge they had because a wonder was destroyed? No, that's just dumb.

So what it really comes down to whether you prefer having some extra wonders that can be conquered for their effects, or whether you want a uniform system that makes sense when you understand it.
Both sides have some reasonable arguments when it comes to that, but I find myself on the side that prefers a system that is consistent within its own rules.
 
Back
Top Bottom