Not necessarily WTP related stuff [SMALLTALK]

raystuttgart

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
9,672
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Hi guys,

what music do you usually hear when you are modding? :)
Do you hear any music at all when you e.g. write code or create graphics?

Usually I hear music from "Two Steps from Hell".
(E.g. Heart of Courage - which is my all time favourite)

Currently however when I am coding I have this here in an endless loop.
I do not know why, but it helps me to stay concentrated ...
 
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Hi guys,

I recently started playing (and privately experimenting with modding) Battletech.
It is actually one of the reasons I have become much less active modding WTP.

---------

Of course Battletech (Story Rich Tactical Battles) and Civ4Col (Big Scale Strategic Empire Building) can not really be compared considering gameplay.
(They are completely different genres and offer completetly different gameplay focus.)

There is of course also no point in comparing graphics, sounds, ... of an old game (Civ4Col from 2008) with a new game (Battletech from 2018).
Such a comparison would simply be straight out unfair. Of course Battlech would easily win.

Battletech also offers modding capabilities (DLL and JSON) and has a highly active modding community.
Generally Civ4Col is still much more "modding friendly" though and allows more access to core logic and 3D-graphics are much easier to be created.

Battltech is extremely heavy considering performance. (Both GPU and CPU)
Especially once you play one of the big Battltech mods, an older machine will easily be brought to its knees.

Technical Summary:

Battletech is definitely the winner considering presentation and technology.
Civ4Col is however much better considering "modding-friendliness" and performance.

---------

I also like the lore and scenario that Battletech offers, but that is just personal taste.
There are two thing however that Battletech does really great that I had always been missing in Civ4Col.

1. Storytelling !!!

Battletech has a long story campaign with great cut-scenes, mini-campaigns (Flashpoints) with extensive dialogues and many small random events.
More can be added realtively easily and that is exactly what many mods have been doing.
I have always dreamed about modding a game and actually telling a story.

2. Intensive Tactical Combat !!!

I straight out love the (tactical turn based) combat system of Battletech. (Well of course, that is the core element of the game.)
It is really not just about "mass always wins", it is really about using different tactics every battle and also has strategic elements.
Doing something similar for a game like Civ4Col seems almost impossible though.

---------

On the "stratgic aspects" it is pretty limited or others would say "streamlined" though.
(A bit of buying / selling equipment and hiring / training mech pilots.)

All you do is focussed on enhacing your ship, mechs and pilots.
There is nothing like "complex economy", "micro-management" or "empire building".

It is ok for the game, but still there is something missing that I really like in WTP.
(The positive of that is, that I will most likely also be playing WTP again from time to time.)

---------

By the way:

Battletech is published by Firaxis as well.
It was developed by Hairbrain Schemes.

---------

Overall Summary:

Battlech has the storytelling and the intensive tactical combat I have always been missing in Civ-like games. (Which includes WTP.)
If it could have a child with WTP and thus inherit the great strategical aspects and awesome modding capabilities of it, that would be the perfect game.

Basically that is what I had always been dreaming of when I wanted to create "Path to the Throne".
  • Deep storytelling (with lots of lore, drama, treachery, ... in a unique setting with a bit darker atmosphere)
  • Intensive combat (with lots of tactical options and very varied units that would really hurt if you lose them)
  • Strong strategic gameplay (with lots of interesting exploration, expansion, economy, diplomacy, population management, ...)
  • Awesome modding capabilities (to allow to add further gameplay content without hiring professional developers)
I know that it would never look as good as modern games, but I also would not really care.
I am not a "presentation junky", I care for story and gameplay (both tactical battles and big strategy).

---------

And yes, I am just a dreamer that still dreams about his "perfect game" and kind of feel that it will never come true if I do not create it myself ...
Maybe one day I will have a game or mod that will have both (great story and great gameplay) ...
 
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raystuttgart said:
Hi guys,

what music do you usually hear when you are modding? :)
Do you hear any music at all when you e.g. write code or create graphics?

Usually I hear music from "Two Steps from Hell".
(E.g. Heart of Courage - which is my all time favourite)

Currently however when I am coding I have this here in an endless loop.
I do not know why, but it helps me to stay concentrated ...
Click to expand...

I like two steps from hell - and heart of courage is epic.With regard to movie themes: I love Hans Ziimmer and Clint Mansell (love the moon soundtrack and love the film), but my favorite will aways be Ennio Morricone. Was very sad to hear of has passing. His music is very special.
 
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Tugboatspotter said:
I like two steps from hell - and heart of courage is epic.With regard to movie themes: I love Hans Ziimmer and Clint Mansell (love the moon soundtrack and love the film), but my favorite will aways be Ennio Morricone. Was very sad to hear of has passing. His music is very special.
Click to expand...

There are several samples on his page
http://www.enniomorricone.org/
 
raystuttgart said:
  • Deep storytelling (with lots of lore, drama, treachery, ... in a unique setting with a bit darker atmosphere)
  • Intensive combat (with lots of tactical options and very varied units that would really hurt if you lose them)
  • Strong strategic gameplay (with lots of interesting exploration, expansion, economy, diplomacy, population management, ...)
  • Awesome modding capabilities (to allow to add further gameplay content without hiring professional developers)
I know that it would never look as good as modern games, but I also would not really care.
I am not a "presentation junky", I care for story and gameplay (both tactical battles and big strategy).

---------

And yes, I am just a dreamer that still dreams about his "perfect game" and kind of feel that it will never come true if I do not create it myself ...
Maybe one day I will have a game or mod that will have both (great story and great gameplay) ...
Click to expand...

For me what’s different about We The People is the social interaction: health, happiness and diplomacy. I can’t think of another game where the psychology is so well developed.

Increased complexity as TAC has evolved into We The People makes me wonder what might happen with a new starting point.

Storytelling is tricky because small variations at the beginning make big differences later, as the chaos theory butterfly demonstrates. That said, it’s possible to introduce pinch points where action is brought back to the plot line.

I think combat is necessary. I like killing strangers with improbable weapons as much as the next person but it can get repetitive. Combat feels real when it’s motivated.

Strategy is where surprises happen: exploring new lands, understanding new people, managing a finite budget while keeping a tenuous connection to real world probabilities. More than a simulation but not entirely a fantasy.

A game like that might be possible.
 
Insights into the psychologie of an old modder:
(Not necessarily meant to be taken serious. :))

How it feels when another modder starts questioning your design or code:

Spoiler :

First reaction when being told that your 20 year old girl is being raised "old fashioned":

What ? You dare telling me that I should not have taught my baby to dance square dance, shoot these damn rats and milk the cows!
How should she then ever attract any young farmer, take care of the farm and make a living?
Should she go into this dangerous city full of sinners and become a homeless living on the streets?

After 2 months of discussion with mom, daughter and family:

Well ok, I will bring her to the city, get her a new appartment and take a look what she does in her new job.
"Actress in a Holywood Movie" still sounds strange to me, but ok I will give her the chance to try.
Mother, give me the gun to shoot any of theses city people if they get too close to her ...


How it feels when a new modder starts changing features in your mod:

Spoiler :

First reaction when the new boy friend of your daugher wants to take her out to prom:

So ok, at first sight he seems to be not too bad. He even dressed properly like a Human.
Wait, where does he put his hands for the photo!!! Is that the hip of my baby???
I swear, if his fingers move just one finger further down, his head will be nailed above the chimney.

15 years later, when dauther and husband come to visit the old dad with their little boy:

Yeah, I knew it right away that he was a good guy that I could trust to give him the hand of my baby.
And just look at this pretty young boy they got. I can directly see the strong genes of his grandpa.
Now I only need to teach him some good square dance for the girls and how to shoot rats and milk cows.
(Or was it to shoot the cows and milk the rats? I get old and start forgetting.)
 
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Tugboatspotter said:
Just change the f*****g mod and stop worrying about it.
Click to expand...
It is simply a joke - making fun a bit of modders - completely overexagerated. :)
(There is nothing meant to be taken serious in my post.)

Just like engineers or lawyers also tell jokes about themselves ... :dunno:
(I can not even count how many jokes I have read and heard about engineers.)
 
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raystuttgart said:
It was simply intended to be a joke. :)
Click to expand...

Good one Ray. Sorry, I already assumed you were not being serious :)

Did you hear the one about the wife who asks her husband " what would you do if I won the lottery?"

Husband: " I would take my share and leave you"
Wife: "Great, here is five dollars - I won ten dollars on the lotto yesterday"

EDIT: would love to hear some of your jokes about engineers and lawyers :)
 
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A mechanical engineer, a chemical engineer, an electrical engineer and a computer engineer were travelling along the road when their car broke down.

The mechanical engineer said: "Sounds to me like the pistons have seized. We'll have to strip down the engine before we can get the car working again."

The chemical engineer begged to differ. "It sound to me as if the fuel might be contaminated. I think we should clear out the fuel system."

"Well, I think it might be a grounding problem," said the electrical engineer, or maybe a faulty plug lead."

The computer engineer said "Perhaps if we all get out of the car and get back in again?"
 
Mr. ZorG said:
that's a good idea.
Click to expand...
It is not really new: I already came up with it in RWL - my project before RaR - actually the "original protoype that later became RaR".
(If you are interested to read, you will find lots of unimplemented and stupid concepts in there - many I had even built prototypes for.)

And I had lots more of ideas for Path to the Throne (promo video) as well. (Here is the old forum)
Still deeply sad that I had to give that one up ... :sad:

And of course much more unimplemented ideas in TAC and RaR. :lol:
(E.g. "Rebuild of War of Independence", ...)

Ideas are not the problem ... :dunno:
We already have too many of them. :(

---

Thus as I said, I do a "hard triage" of the ideas I even suggest.
I have still have at least 50 concepts that I consider interesting but have never (or not yet) suggested because either one of those:
  • The effort is too big considering my personal motivation to implement - at least at the moment
  • It is currently not the right time to suggest, because there are depencies to other of my concepts to be implemented first
  • I feel that community or team will not like it anyways - because it might e.g. be too much micromanagement or not beginner friendly enough
  • Stuff that I would love to have but feel is technically too complex or might impact performance too much to be able to realize it
  • ...
---

Summary:

There are still old concepts and ideas that never were implemented from 4 previous projects just of myself !
And all of you guys most likely also have ideas of your own. ;)

So do not worry. :mischief:
We will not run out of ideas. :)
 
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Mr. ZorG said:
I really like this:mischief:
Click to expand...

Maybe one day I will give you guys a "personal best of list" considering my ideas and protoypes from RWL and PttT. :lol:
You will be surprised and often laugh hard about all that crazy stuff. :crazyeye:

But some of those ideas are actually really good. :mischief:
The problem is simply the effort ... :sad:
 
Reaction instead here - than there:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/understanding-ai-in-games-explanations-for-players.670518/

The very reason why in old games (includes this one) AI more likely called AU artificial un-intelligence. :badcomp:

While in recent years normal AI is in the opposite pattern.
Like MIT robots/ even chatbots with
raystuttgart said:
reactive on current data
Click to expand...
And wanted to use AI specially for strategic decision making - as unbiased (rely only on data)/ over human capabilities in intelligence.
 
Details are important: :goodjob:

https://www.rt.com/news/529489-tank-secrets-russian-game/

A gamer believed to be a Challenger 2 commander has apparently decided that preserving state secrets is less important than proving to a game company that its digital model of the British main battle tank is inaccurate.
...
It seems one such person may have breached the UK Official Secrets Act, by leaking a portion of the still-classified manual for the Challenger 2 main battle tank. On Wednesday, the user posted on the forum a link to excerpts from a Challenger 2 AESP (Army Equipment Support Publication) as he argued his point to developers.
 
By the way, for every fan of "colonization stories" that likes to also read, I really suggest to read this here:
raystuttgart said:
I am currently reading Monarchies of God from Paul Kearney.

Great mix of Medieval, Fantasy, Colonization of a New World, Religious Wars, Inquisiton, ...
Pretty hard to explain. But the books (it is a series of 5 books) are very atmospheric and very enjoyable to read.

If you like medieval (fantasy) stories with a slight dark touch, then I definitely recommend that book series. :thumbsup:

Could be an awesome background story for a Colonization mod. :think: :D
(Especially since one of the themes of the series is indeed "Colonization of a New World".)
Click to expand...
 
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