Nukes should = Nuclear Winter, not Global Warming

I can understand and appreciate a serious scientific arguement against certain post nuclear war climate effects in the interests of clarity. But there seems to be a certain industry that actually desires to reduce the fears and taboos associated with a nuclear war.
 
I dont understand why people are in such denial.... it must be political affiliation.

No serious scientist questions whether there is global warming (actually as Andy06r said it better: Climate change) - some scientists question the validity that it is caused by humans.

Of course there IS global warming, just the same as there are ice ages - are you going to question those too? :rolleyes: By simple deduction, if there are ice ages then there must be some system of global warming in place or we'd all be sitting in our woolies right now (if we were lucky enough to have survived).

I'm not weighing in on either side of the human driven climate change debate as that's not actually at discussion here and to tell you the truth I have spent more months of my life than I care to reading on the subject and "debating" it with people who have no basis in science but are interested purely to push a political agenda.... but let's please accept a basic, simple scientific fact and that is that the world warms up and cools down periodically. You can conveniently label those periods "Global Warming" and "Global Cooling"..... not exactly controversial is it? :confused:

while global warming might have the definition of say the opposite of an ice age, most people, when refering to it, are talking about an appacolypse triggered by heat, that sets the earth into an upward spiral if you will, till it cant and wont support live ever again, period, the chain reaction is supposed to involve the glaciars melting which causes the earth to absorb more heat because the seas dark color absorbs it or something, its supposed to get to the point where theres no more liquid water on the planets surface
 
This has been gone over before, and I don't think it should be like the way you suggest. There was a bug before that the AI didn't take into account of taking upon the ongoing hostilities/war(s) of the vassalized nation, I understand this was fixed (in Warlords?) and the AI is now aware that it will take on those wars?

So assuming the above is true, the AI is offering to be vassalized to another for help in their current war. I see this as logical so why need the change? It's like them offering a tech/gold to for war assistance.
A Civ can't beg to become a Vassal -- that request doesn't even exist in the Diplomacy interface. A stronger Civ can only demand that a weaker Civ Capitulate to them and become their Vassal.

The problem is that often if a Civ is near defeat a stronger Civ requests that they Capitulate and become their Vassal, but instead of imposing peace they're dragged into the war. The only exception is if the Master Civ was also at war with the Vassal State, in which case when the enemy Civ capitulates it ends the war

What should occur when a Civ Capitulates to another is that an immediate Armistice is declared and a pop-up appears explaining that this Civ has become the Vassal of that Civ; then it should give the Player the option to either declare war on the Master Civ or agree to a Cease Fire.

But this is getting off topic, because I was merely explaining WHY I was compelled to use nukes. This thread is about the realistic effects of nukes, aside from creating fallout, which is a no-brainer -- and is cleaned up far too easily IMO.

In regards to Nuclear Winter, I'm not talking about the far-fetched post-apocalyptic Nuclear Winter that looks like an Ice Age. A plausible Nuclear Winter is actually a world shrouded in perpetual, impenetrable cloud cover, which would obscure direct sunlight and hinder agriculture, especially the farm crops that feed the majority of the world's population. Yes, the climate would be colder because of the lack of sunlight, but it wouldn't mean 100-feet of snow and ice covering the world. In the past, massive volcanic eruptions have cast enough ash and soot into the atmosphere to effect the global climate, which have destroyed entire civilizations. A nuclear war would have a similar effect. The severity and duration of the nuclear winter would depend on the scale of the nuclear exchange. In reality, tactical nukes probably wouldn't cause a nuclear winter at all, because by their very design they're intended to be relatively small battlefield weapons (I've posted an idea of limiting the destruction and fallout of Tactical Nukes to a single map tile, but this wasn't implemented in BtS either), whereas ICBMs are strategic weapons whose primary purpose is deterence and the M.A.D. of a nuclear holocaust. Therefore, ICBMs should cause nuclear winter, but Nukes simply don't have the power on par with a super-volcano's explosive eruption.

As for the issue of Global Warming and the insanely ignorant juvenile bullsh!t notion that humans can't positively effect the planet because "we're so small and the Earth is so big" -- this sounds like a kindergardener's excuse! That's like saying that a drop of water is harmless; but millions of raindrops can cause flooding, erosion, and mudslides, which kill thousands of people every year. The same analogy applies to humans; individually our effect on the Earth is just a drop in the bucket, but 7+ billion raindrops has and will continue to change the face of our planet for the worse.
 
A Civ can't beg to become a Vassal -- that request doesn't even exist in the Diplomacy interface. A stronger Civ can only demand that a weaker Civ Capitulate to them and become their Vassal.

Yes they can. The AI can beg the player to accept them as a Vassal even during peacetime.

while global warming might have the definition of say the opposite of an ice age, most people, when refering to it, are talking about an appacolypse triggered by heat, that sets the earth into an upward spiral if you will, till it cant and wont support live ever again, period, the chain reaction is supposed to involve the glaciars melting which causes the earth to absorb more heat because the seas dark color absorbs it or something, its supposed to get to the point where theres no more liquid water on the planets surface

Really? I've not come across many who think global warming will lead to an apocalypse and no more liquid water. Where did you read about that?
 
as a funny side note:
i once played a game of Civ3 specifically to see what happens when every possible square was covered in nuke debris.
it took no less than 14 turns to turn every possible square into desert.
FYI: i started with ghandi..that heartless bastard!
 
Who cares whether you have global warming or nuclear winter? The effect is the same: useless tiles for your cities.
Actually, if Nuclear Winter was accurately simulated in Civ4 then it would be global or at the very least a regional effect -- it wouldn't randomly strike a single map tile around the map like Global Warming. Instead, the loss of sunlight caused by nuclear winter would hinder agriculture and reduce crop yields by approximately 50%; so the game world's tiles' Food generation would be reduced by half, which would cause global starvation.

The extent and duration of the Nuclear Winer would depend on the scale of the nuclear holocaust. A few Tactical Nuke detonations wouldn't cause Nuclear Winter at all. A half dozen ICBM detonations might cause a year-long nuclear winter. A nuclear world war involving dozens of ICBMs would cause a nuclear winter that would last 10 years or more.

Of course, in Civ4 a nuclear world war is unlikely -- especially within the alotted time of the campaign game.
 
Yes they can. The AI can beg the player to accept them as a Vassal even during peacetime.
In my experience this has never happened; no AI Civ has ever requested to become my Vassal State, no matter how benevolent and powerful my Civs have been.

I know that the Player can't request to become the Vassal of another Civ -- it's not even an option on the Diplomacy interface. I know because on the rare occassions that I've attempted peaceful campaigns I've often been attacked by aggressive Civs; even when they've finally agreed to talk I couldn't offer to become their Vassal in order to end the war and save myself. Sometimes they demand that I Capitulate, but Capitulating isn't a request that available to the Player.
 
Just replace the words "Global Warming" with "Nuclear Winter" in the game and it makes more sense, as the excessive nuclear detonations ingame releases massive amounts of radioactive fallout drifting back down to the surface and sterilizing the land, changing it to desert. Same effect as currently takes place, just a different name.
It's not as simple as renaming Global Warming to Nuclear Winter.

As I responded in another post already, Nuclear Winter shouldn't be represented by a randomly selected map tile anywhere in the game world; it should be a global or at the very least a regional effect that decreases the Food yields by 50%, which would cause Starvation.

Nuclear Winter might destroy agricultural Map Improvements, like Farms, Camps, Pastures, etc. and possiby even destroy the Resources themselves; but Nuclear Winter shouldn't destroy Mines, Oil Derricks, Windmills, etc., or their Resources, since they wouldn't be effected by lack of sunlight or drop in temperature.
 
In my experience this has never happened; no AI Civ has ever requested to become my Vassal State, no matter how benevolent and powerful my Civs have been.

Well, it can happen. It's happened to me once or twice on Monarch and lots and lots of times on Prince. (in the warlords version of Civ)

As I responded in another post already, Nuclear Winter shouldn't be represented by a randomly selected map tile anywhere in the game world; it should be a global or at the very least a regional effect that decreases the Food yields by 50%, which would cause Starvation.
Like my Nuclear Winter suggestion above! (i.e. temporary reduction in :food: and/or increase in :yuck: for every city on the globe)
 
Best solution to the nuclear weapons in Civ issue:

Nukes should trigger nuclear winter, which should cause a temporary -n :food: or +n :yuck: in all your cities (where n depends on intensity of the conflict) and the effect should subside over time. Tiles turning into desert permanently is just silly.

Also,

I think the player should be able to set a switch in the "Custom Game Menu" deciding whether or not the game should include Global Warming. That way both scientists, people who trust scientists and people who don't can have a fun time.

Ahhh, finally someone with a good suggestion for this game mechanic.... instead of a bunch of ignorant politcal BS from one side or the other.
 
I stopped reading first post, barely thru the first paragraph when he said ICBM's were cost prohibitive and you were better of building space ship parts...

WHO THE HELL WINS WITH SPACE SHIP?

I mean come on, if you haven't unified the world under your control, why bother winning.. I'm thinking of leaving only Diplo and Conquest on, because Domination just means I rule half the world, while conquest means I rule it all. And Diplo gives me AP and UN. plus if i were to win... Id have control over the world because they all support me :)
 
WHO THE HELL WINS WITH SPACE SHIP?

I mean come on, if you haven't unified the world under your control, why bother winning.. I'm thinking of leaving only Diplo and Conquest on, because Domination just means I rule half the world, while conquest means I rule it all. And Diplo gives me AP and UN. plus if i were to win... Id have control over the world because they all support me

My victory is better than your victory!!!

What a useful sentiment.

Space victories lead to a different endgame and are therefore interesting. Also, when playing on Emperor+ on a continents map, the space victory is sometimes the best strategy out of all avalaible, since invasion of the other continent can be a gamble at best.
 
Some people dont like to let the AI have a shot at winning! :p
 
Someone said the nuke tests have had no effect on our environment but its admitted by all sides they do/did have. They throw up a lot of dust short term and obviously add a very large amount to the already existing pollution!

Just one bomb has an effect on our world. As for the effect of a war, im not sure anyone knows, most of science is educated guesses. But my educated guess is it will make it warmer! Even now the worlds deserts are advancing at a rate of miles a year! Its all pretty worrying and even more so when you realise we have no way of stopping pollution, only slowing it now massively populated countries like china are catching us in their use of cars and tvs etc.

Talking of fallout has anyone seen the screenshots for the new one? WOW!!!
 
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