OB08 - Tall Poppy Syndrome

Xenoborg said:
Looking at it again, we wouldnt even benifit from crusade right now. We are only paying support for 3 units atm, don't have any war weariness yet, and only Torr is Order so we would lost military production in most cities.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we need to spread Order around before we start our Crusade. (Paulus made this point earlier.)

I still think that we should wipe out the Dwarves and Perp. while we have the opportunity and the greatest flexibility (i.e. while we are at war with Alexis, at peace with the Elves, and have Open Borders with Dain). I haven't had a chance to look at the most recent save, but I don't think that we can field two stacks that are strong enough to capture and hold Fearyl's cities, hold off Alexis, and raze Perp. and or Kandros at the same time. Let's deal with these annoying little civs now so that we don't have to be as careful watching the point totals when we make our drive to claim the lead vs. Faeryl (or Dain).
 
pholkhero said:
soo.....

i'll do my dual install and take this, shall i?
Click to expand...

I think Xeno's got it pholky. You'll be next, provided you can straighten out your double install issues. :)
 
Lobsterboy said:
I still think that we should wipe out the Dwarves and Perp. while we have the opportunity and the greatest flexibility (i.e. while we are at war with Alexis, at peace with the Elves, and have Open Borders with Dain). I haven't had a chance to look at the most recent save, but I don't think that we can field two stacks that are strong enough to capture and hold Fearyl's cities, hold off Alexis, and raze Perp. and or Kandros at the same time. Let's deal with these annoying little civs now so that we don't have to be as careful watching the point totals when we make our drive to claim the lead vs. Faeryl (or Dain).
Click to expand...

OK, lets do this then. Once we deal with the baby civs, our army is going to be closer to Dain so he might make the bext target. The problem with this is the time taken and the fact we're not going to be getting many points while we do it (and also dealing with Alexis along the way).

EDIT: We'll give Xenoborg another day (already been 48 hours)!
 
sorry Oz ~ i can't figure out why this isn't working for me.

I renamed every directory i can think of ~ my comp doesn't even show the right icons anymore for 319!

i'm gonna have to w/draw...unless you want to all upgrade to 3.19
 
Ok sorry for the second delay, I wasnt sure what then overall plan was then I ran out of time at the end of the week. Playing now, will go for the little civs, probably just razing.
 
Inherited 522
Reorganize our trade deals with Dain, Auric, and FV since we won’t be killing them for a bit.
-Cancel earth mana to FV for cotton as we have 2 sources of cotton we just captured from Perp
-Trade our extra cotton to Dain for Silk; we still have some unhappy cities.
-Cancel Earth and Spirit mana to Dain for Enchant mana.
-Trade Spirit mana to Auric for horses, banana, pigs, dye, fur, gems, ivory AND 19 GPT! He could cancel this in 10 turns, but I think he is going to be too busy with FV/Basium.
- We could trade Stirrups to FV and Basium for 6 turns of research worth of Smelting and Military Strategy, but I decide against giving them more techs.
-Give extra rice to Basium for 1 GPT, he is not unhealthy anyway. Also weird that for some reason Basium himself is an extra large warrior rather than his usual model.

Spoiler :
basium.jpg


Speaking of Basium, I just noticed that we in fact do not have compact enforced on. We have hell terrain and the AC turned off, but we will have Hyborem if someone decides to research it. Since everyone already has one of the early religions I don’t think we have to worry too much about this.

Dain is WHEOH, so I beg 1gpt off him because I think we might be his next target, but he never does anything about it later.

We have a GE in Khazak, can’t use him on a 1 GP GA, bulb gets less than 1/3 a tech, settling is too long-term, so I rush minus 5 turns of the forbidden palace. Will cut about 20 from city maintenance, and gives Khazak some much needed culture.

Queue up a mage guild then an adept in Vallus. After smelting we can spend 4 turns to get Alteration, we have a lot of free mana nodes and a permanent +1 to all our melee from enchanted blade is worth it.

Haste from body, rust from entropy, dance of blades from chaos, and blur from shadow are other really good level one spells, so we might want to pick up Necromancy too.

Will also sneak in an acolyte between builds in Torr, with luck he alone could spread order to most of our cities. (I later find out that this now gives us crusaders now instead of more acolytes)

Military wise our most pressing needs are probably catapults (we have 3) and priests (we have one). Axes/archers will be mainly for covering our heroes and city defense, but our heroes will probably do most of the heavy lifting in city attacks.
We are making 20 gold at 90% science. We could go to -3 at 100%, but starting to stockpile for champion upgrades or rush buys.

523
FV captures Gurr'ash from Auric
Dain builds Necronomicon
Alexis shows up with ~20 units in front of Trinity, most are combat and not CR so Ill wait 1 and fight them out of the town.
524
Alexi’s troops move in a bit more.
525
Alexi’s troops pillage one of our cottons, but we clean them out at the loss of a 2XP axe to soften a royal guard. She had 3, each with combat 3-5, those are pretty tough.
With the trireme nearby and several troops in the closest city, I pop the wrecked ship and get a treasure map to a place within our borders, checking it out.
Spoiler :
treasure.jpg

526
Clean up a few stragglers from Alex. We lose a confessor attacking a half health moroi at 98% odds.
527
Chest only had 130 gold in it. I've never seen one give gold, was hoping for a cool item.
528
Retlan capture by FV from Auric, I hope she is not running away with it. There is nothing we can give Auric and no one will fight her.
529
FV builds Kithra.
Smelting comes in, chose Alteration (4) next, then Military Strategy (4). Righteousness for Sphener would be great, but it’s 50 turns at 100%. Religious law to Theology for high priests would be good as well, but both are about 20 turns. It is probably best just to go to Iron Working though.

We have 2 iron deposits, one under the small dwarf city on the dragon’s borders, the other in our far southwest, but it’s under a town, so I’ll leave it be.
Basium appears to be sending all his units to camp at the Dragons door, but has a decent shot since his units aren’t alive. (Side note: we were actually attacked by barbs from this city later; Basium might have tried and failed to take it. If we have a safe turn, have a hawk check to see what happened.)
531-33
Pretty quite set of turns of moving troops toward Perp. I consider building forges, but even in our capital they would take 75+ turns just to pay for themselves.
534
Alteration finishes. I pick Military Strategy (3) for blitz, heroic epic, and maybe command posts.
535
We lose our trireme to Alexis's on defense. We had 77% attacking + the bit from to coast so that’s more bad luck.
534
Border pop at Khazak gets us an extra silk, redo trades with Dain to get 16 GPT for it. (Or more accurately 16 GPT to not be buying it from him anymore).
Find another 10 stack from Alex about 80% of the way through Dain's land, there is a forest hill nearby so I camp on it to kill them next turn.
536
The barbarian golden age ends?
FV loses Kithra, probably to Auric.
COE is founded, by Dain. It actually shows the holy city in the religion tab, is that a bug?
Military Strategy in, next is Iron working (17).
Chip the top 6 units off Alexi's stack, but more showed up so I didn’t risk losing anyone.
537
Dang, a Moroi uses a road and kills one of our hawks; these are amazingly useful so I queue up a new one back home.
Clean up the rest of Alexi's stack and move into a hill fort outside of Perp's city of Hexam.
538
They attack the hill and lose 2. We bombard 1/3 of the way.
539
2/3 bombarded.
540
Defenses are down. 5 longbows go down to heroes and CR3CB1-3 axes.
541
FV and Auric call peace.
Clean up the next 7 units in Hexam. There is no one unit left at 25% and we have half our army ready to move. I don't know if we want to capture or raze so I'll end my set here.

Spoiler :
end2e.jpg

Watch out for this stack and maybe others to come through Dain's land. I have two hawks in his cities to look for incoming troops.

Spoiler :
end1.jpg


Have the adept start on a mana node, probably enchantment over body.

There are two Perp archers camped in a hill forest near our north, but they don’t see to what to do anything. If they leave move onto flatland the horse archer in the city there can probably take them out.

Next turn we should have two triremes that can hopefully kill Alex's.

Be sure to give Valin blitz with his promo next turn.

In 3 turns you can redo the deal with Dain for sugar to include silk again since we lost ours to FV borders.

Keep using those hawks and replace them if they get taken out, the warning for incoming attacks is huge.
 
Nice job Xenoborg!

I'm going to raze Hexam. I probably will be swamped by the culture from Dain's nearby cities, so it won't do much for us. Jubilee, on the other hand, might be worth saving, but it is pretty far away, and we only have Archers and Axes to defend it against Alexis while we continue our version of Sherman's "March to the Sea".

Oh yeah! Can we have the save?
 
Oops, it was pretty late by the time I finished compiling the report.

Having a place to upgrade to iron weapons and axes to champions would be really nice. We do only have 2 archers with the stack though. As for the maintence, we still have summer palace left to build, and we can put a courthouse and a basilica in them. We are also running around 60 gold positive at 90% science. (This is pretty much all Khazak's doing, some 60 base income from the shrine + a money changer on top of that).
 

Attachments

Xenoborg said:
Having a place to upgrade to iron weapons and axes to champions would be really nice.
Click to expand...
. That's a good point. Somehow, I didn't get that from Oz's post. :crazyeye:

Xenoborg said:
As for the maintence... we are also running around 60 gold positive at 90% science.
Click to expand...
I did notice this (and was quite pleased to see it!), but I didn't appreciate that this might allow us to keep one (or more) of Perp's cities. Defending them will be hard, I think, unless we leave one of our heros behind.

I've got the save. I probably won't have time to play tonight (got a deadline tomorrow), but we'll see (I'm always looking for constructive ways to procrastinate!)
 
After playing around with Rise of Mankind the past week I've really gotten to like the BUG mod. I see from some of your screen shots that a few of you seem to have a version that works with FFH. Is there a thread somewhere that shows how to do this or was it just ad hoc?
 
lurker's comment: AFAIK, there is none. But the wish that BUG may be implanted into FfH has been uttered every now and again. And now, with the arrival of BUFFY, the implementation of BUFFY into FfH is #1 on my christmas wish list. :drool: ;)
 
Turn 541 Inherited turn
Goals: Spread Order
Knockoff a few Perpentach cities
Don't screw up!

Hmmm... Some of our cities are pretty lightly defended, but otherwise, things look OK.

Our lone Adept starts building an Enchantment node.

Donal has two movement points left and attacks Hexam:

Your Donal Lugh DEFEATS a Balseraph Taskmaster (Donal Lugh @ 2.3/4)
Hexam is CAPTURED!

Hexam is just not that good of a city. It's not on either a river or the sea, it's got at least three mountain tiles, and it's pretty close to one of Dain's cities, so I decide to raze it.

IBT:
Perpentach converts to Fellowship of Leaves Interesting...


Turn 542
Tentatio-onis finishes: Trireme --> Catapult It is given the Buccaneer Crew Promotion, and moves out to take on Alexis's Trireme that is pounding down the Walls of Zbolub.
Valin is promoted to Blitz. While the stack heals...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Harlequin (Valin Phanuel @ 9/9)
Move Science slider to 100%. Shaves a turn off Ironworking, and still @ +10 gpt! :)

IBT:
Dain's got a big stack that starts walking through Perpentach's land. I wonder where it's off too?
Alexis has a smallish stack of a few Longbows and Moroi and a Royal Guard that's approaching our "Hero" stack.
Alexis's Trireme breaks off it's bombardment of Zbolub, and moves to confront our new Trireme, allowing our other Trireme in Zbolub to move out.


Turn 543 Healing...

IBT:
Predictably, Alexis's Trireme attacks our Trireme that just moved out of Zbolub.
A Balseraph Trireme DESTROYS your Trireme! Bummer. If it gets a promotion, I'm gonna be [pissed]!


Turn 544
Alexis's stack ends up on the doorstep of our "Hero" stack. Valin and the boys swing into action:
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Royal Guard (Valin Phanuel @ 4.2/8) Ouch!
Your Donal Lugh DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Donal Lugh @ 8/8)
Our Axes have ~ 65% odds to defeat the other Longbows, but I decide not to risk them.


Turn 545
Halowell finishes: Courthouse --> Archery Range
Trinity finishes: Monument --> Temple of Order
Son of a B*****! Alexis's Trireme DID get a promotion. We only have a 65% chance to beat it, so our Trireme moves off.
Bamber makes his appearance with a small Dwarven stack of a few Chariots and a Soldier of Kilmorph near our "Hero" stack. Maybe we'll have a chance to kill him next turn.

IBT:
Alexis's Trireme attacks... and destroys our Trireme!! [pissed]
Auric asks for 750 gold. No thanks!


Turn 546
Basium is starting to become worrisome. He now has at least 3 5X promoted Heralds. Gulp!
Zbolub finishes: Axeman --> Trireme
Vallus finishes: Adept --> Archer

IBT:
Alexis's god damned Trireme gets another promotion! :aargh:


Turn 547
Torrolerial finishes: Horse Archer --> Acolyte
Bamber cooperates, and ends his turn right next to our "Hero" stack just as Valin is fully healed! Silly Bamber. But first, we must deal with his defenders...
Your Donal Lugh DEFEATS a Khazak Soldier of Kilmorph (Donal Lugh @ 3.2/4) Ouch again!
Your Crusader DEFEATS a Khazak Chariot (Crusader @ 3.3/6)
Your Axeman DEFEATS a Khazak Chariot (Axeman @ 3.5/6)
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS Bamber (Valin Phanuel @ 0.8/8) YOW!! :wow: That was close!


Turn 548
Ventry finishes: Courthouse --> Training Yard
Tentatio-onis finishes: Catapult --> Trireme

IBT:
We lose one of our recon Hawks.


Turn 549
Wercer finishes: Archer --> Archer
Iron is discovered near Vallus! BONUS!
Our "Hero" stack is finally on the move!


Turn 550
Torrolerial finishes: Acolyte --> Crusader
Vallus finishes: Archer --> Axeman

Big news! Auric declares War on the Kandros/Alexis/Perpentach alliance! Maybe he'll get rid of the Dwarves for us!

The stack of Alexis's that Xenoborg pointed out during his turn set is incoming on Astrum. Fortunately, I have an Adept there who has cast Wall of Stone, and the Walls will finish next turn.

IBT:
Basium kills Acheron. That should help our culture in the SW.
Basium also gets a Great Engineer, and Faeryl gets a Great Sage.


Turn 551
Technology discovered: Iron Working --> Bowers (13) Just in time!
Astrum finishes: Walls --> Archery Range

I was hoping to upgrade an Axe in Astrum to a Champion, but I realized that we don't have a Training Yard there. Bummer. Let's hope that the new walls save us.

IBT:
Alexis does *not* attack Astrum. I expect that she's going to position her stack on a hill before she does so, but she could also be going after our soft center. We'll see...


Turn 552
Order spreads to Tentatio-onis And we get a Crusader out of the deal. How cool is that?!


Turn 553
Zbolub finishes: Trireme --> Champion
Khazzak finishes: Temple of Kilmorph --> Temple of Order
We start bombarding the Balseraph city of Coombe View.


Turn 554
Dirage finishes: Courthouse --> Champion
Tentatio-onis finishes: Trireme --> Champion

Alexis backs off the hill near Astrum. She must have been going after some reinforcements that I had maneuvered a few squares away. One of them, a Catapult, attacks and withdraws! Yeah!
We continue the bombing of Coombe View, but I'm getting impatient! Valin attacks...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 9/9) Didn't even tarnish his armor. Our Confessor blesses him, and we do it again...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 9/9) Hot dog! :banana: (or banana, as the case may be).


Turn 555
Coombe View's defenses are down. Valin attacks...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 9/9) Donal finishes it up so he'll earn a promotion next turn...
Your Donal Lugh DEFEATS a Balseraph Taskmaster (Donal Lugh @ 8/8)
Coombe View is CAPTURED!!. Donal also is upgraded to Iron Weapons. BONUS!
I raze the city because I think that we only have enough extra units to hold one city, and my eyes are set on the Balseraph captial Jubilee.


IBT:
Alexis's Trireme attacks the Trireme that we built in Tentatio-onis and is finally DEFEATED!

Turn 556
Torrolerial finishes: Crusader --> Acolyte
Trinity finishes: Temple of Order --> Acolyte


Turn 557
Wercer finishes: Archer --> Walls
Corona finishes: Siege Workshop --> Catapult

IBT:
The Illians capture a city from Alexis. No, no, NO! :nono: You're supposed to go after the Dwarves, you knuckleheads!


Turn 558
We start the bombardment of Jubilee.
Valin attacks a Longbowman that is wandering around outside Jubilee's walls...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 9/9) :p
Our Catapult in Astrum is healed, and goes in again. Unfortunately, he is weakened by a defensive strike, and is destroyed. :(

IBT:
The Illians, bless their little icy hearts, heed my advice, and capture one of the Dwarven cities! :pat:
I spot a stack of Alexis's headed back to her territory. Cool. Too bad they're just a little too far out of Valin's range.
Alexis's stack near Astrum looks to be headed back to defend the Motherland too. Nice!


Turn 559
Torrolerial finishes: Acolyte --> Champion
Jubilee is bombed down to 1%, so Valin attacks...
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 8.7/9) Hey! You got peanut butter on my armor!
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 7.3/9)
Your Donal Lugh DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Donal Lugh @ 5.2/6)

IBT:
Faeryl and Dain get Great Sages.
The Dwarves capture an Illian city!! Stoopid Icemen!


Turn 560
Trinity finishes: Acolyte --> Acolyte
Your Valin Phanuel DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Valin Phanuel @ 3.7/4) Yeech. Because both Donal and Valin are hurt, the Axemen take over...
Your Axeman DEFEATS a Balseraph Harlequin (Axeman @ 4.1/5)
Your Axeman DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Axeman @ 5/5)
Your Axeman DEFEATS a Balseraph Longbowman (Axeman @ 4.3/5)
One unit left, but we'll save it for next turn, so everyone can move into the city after it's capture.

IBT:
The Dwarves complete the Great Lighthouse.


Turn 561
Halowell finishes: Archery Range --> Market
Order spreads to Astrum. And another Crusader joins our army.
The final battle for Jubilee. The honor is given to a lowly 2X promoted Axeman to give him a promotion...
Your Axeman DEFEATS a Balseraph Swordsman(Axeman @ 4.3/5)
Jubilee is CAPTURED!!! and surprise, surprise! the Balseraphs are NO MORE!!! Well, I didn't expect that!


Turn 562
Technology discovered: Bowers --> Necromancy (3) Feel free to change this. Any of the magic spheres can be had for 3 turns. We've still got one unimproved mana node which we could use for Body (we already have Alteration) or Blades of Chaos (requires Necromancy). I also considered Religious Law (12) for Royal Guards. (We can build these, right?) I'll leave it for Oz to decide.
Order spreads to Vallus And another Crusader joins our army.
Fellowship of Leaves spreads to Halowell Bloody Elves!

And there we have it. Alexis seems to be beating a hasty retreat back to her own territory to defend it against Auric. As soon as Donal and Valin are healed up, we should move our stack out to start ransacking some of Alexis's cities on the way to destroying Kandros. I've fortified two Archers and three of the Axes to leave behind in Jubilee. That probably will be enough to defend the city from Alexis, although the borders won't pop for another 6 turns. Once the unrest is over, we might want to rush an Archery Range there to enable the archers to be upgraded to Longbows or a Training Yard to upgrade the Axes.

I managed to spread Order to 3 more of our cities. but I think that more than half of them still need it.

Have fun Oz!
 

Attachments

Be sure to make use of magic, put something (body for haste?) on our node in the north, and try to get an adept to the attack squad.
 
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