obsolete units

[CivMonger]

I think that most people out there agree that having say, swordsman, appear on your production screen when your whipping nukes around like there is no tommorrow (and probably isn't if your nuclear ) is pretty pointless. Unless you literally get blown back into the stone age, which isn't gonna happen, you have no purpose for them. Personally, I wouldn't mind having these units removed from the build list once you reach a certain point in technology. Unfortunately, I realize that I am not king and that not everyone agrees with me so another method would have to be implemented. I think that a toggle button could be included in say, the civilopedia , to activate or deactivate a certain unit. tell me what you think, and offer any input, both good and bad.

If you disagree (first voter! argh) please state a reason why, I would like to know. Can't really see a downside to thise.

 

[allhailIndia]

I am a bit confused

Are you saying that the unit will be deactivated throughout the game or only when you want it?


If it is the second, option, I am against it because it would be easier to make them obsolete when a certain tech is researched, mush like wonders

 

[CivMonger]

I think that having the player select it would be the most logical way, incase somebody actually wants to build the unit yet. Then again, I kinda want the great library to work forever, and pyramids and sun tzu to work on islands as well (good ol' editor ) I think that the set date unit go bye-bye would be easiest and most likely, so vote based on that.

just adding instead of new post: I can't see why nobody agrees with me you guys have destroyed my meaning for life! :suicide: Another thing I don't like, when you get a new patch, all your editor mods are changed. Guess it makes sense, but hate not having my subs with hidden nationality! just started was with aztecs so I could use my shiny new submarines. Its ok though, we didn't like eachother anyway. (he started it, found a spy trying to steal stuff; they have a purpose )

 

[JustListenen]

I don't mind obsolete units remaining that were built early in the game ... but I hate it when the city governors want to build archers when I am building Modern Armour units, mechanized infantry and Bombers! Of course this only happens with units that are deadend .. not upgradeable.

The units suggested by the city governors should be related to the CIVS advances and era. Why build archers to fight off mechanized infantry or modern armour.

Of course, building INVINCIBLE SPEARMENT would be OK... except I have never lost a tank to a spearman in over 5 months of game play.

 

[SiCK_Boy]

It would be nice to have the option of removing some units or building from the build list, but probably more with a right click through the build list rather than through the civilopedia.

As to having a pre-set date or some given parameter to automaticaly remove obsolete units from the list, I don't think it's needed. But giving players who want it the option can't be bad. (Maybe use a date or given parameter through the editor, but letting it blank by default so that no unit disapear without your consent, through the game or the editor).

 

[CivMonger]

it looks like the majority of people agree with me, although somebody doesn't recognize my greatness and two people need to talk to their mommy and daddy first... we'll hear from them later. however, I hope to hear from them yet. More feedback as well would be apreciated. SO far I think the leading Idea would be a right click in the production queue with a option to then disable the unit, and then being able to go to the civilopedia if you feel the urge to build the unit again.

 

[TigerZuke]

I was wondering why swordsmen appeared in my build que.. i thought that my game was defective..... this is a great relief!

 

[God]

I built swordsmen to defend some newly captured cities while I was finishing off the last civ on my continent. They are cheap and they keep order in the city.

 

[Dicky_Mint]

I voted for this as a good idea - it's a pain in the butt having to scroll through the list of possible units to build in a nuclear age coastal city.

However, at 1.21 you can prevent captured cities from reverting by placing sufficient confused: ) units there. I guess it makes more sense to build cheap obsolete units for this job rather than tie up my Modern Armor units.

Maybe what would be better would be a single entry in the menu for Obsolete Units - clicking on that would give a list of obsolete units to select from, so the units are there if you want them, but not in the way when you don't.

What do other people think on this?

I'd also like it better if the City Governers stopped trying to build Privateers when everybody's got Nuclear subs and Battleships .

 

[Ren]

Civ who?

 

[Sullla]

I don't see this as a major problem. There are times when I have wanted to produce a swordsman or a longbow in industrial times, for various reasons that were important at the time. Why would you want to limit yourself by removing an option you already have? You want to be able to build FEWER units? That doesn't make much sense to me.

The only reason why I can see someone wanting to do this would be if they are using the city governors, and I very strongly urge that anyone serious about playing Civ3 turn them off in the preferences menu. Civ3 is hard enough as it is; the last thing I need is for the AI to start deciding what I should build in my cities.

 

[Dinorius R.]

I think it's a great idea Mr. Monger although Sick_Boy's method of having the toggle somewhere on the build queue is better than having it tucked away in the 'paedia (just in case circumstances change or we get nostalgic for Spearmen).

While we're at it, I'd also ask that the function of that stupid build queue be fixed up. Don't you get annoyed when trying to click multiple times on one unit type and the icon for it keeps jumping down the queue or disappears from view altogether?

OK, why stop there? Let's go further and ask for a "Disband All" hotkey as well. I mean, we have an "Upgrade All" hotkey which is very convenient, but if you want to cash in all your obsolete units for shields, you are forced to do it one-by-one at present.

Anyway, thanks for raising this issue, it's a good suggestion.

 

[Heffalump]

Just as technological expertise advances, it disappears as well. Does anyone in the modern world know how to equip and train a legion anymore??

Yes maybe for a show, but not a real unit that could stand up and right a real legion from Roman days.

So i think there's some sense in having units "expire".

The lowest common denominator in the modern world is kind of a "guys with guns" outfit. Basically a militia-like group of men (Taliban, good example).

So when units are made obsolescent with new techs the eventual lowest common unit should be something similar to Rifleman, or (Partisans in CivII ). Give it a higher A/D than any old units, and a movement of 2, no resource requirement, and it's still better than a swordsmen.

Of course the a/d/m of modern units might need to be adjusted upward more so that guys with guns outfits aren't TOO powerful.

Alternative: use imagination and don't take 20th century "swordsmen" too literally.

 

[JoeM]

Definitely optional.

In fact expand the idea as I'm sick of having new cities with high corruption being forced to build Infantry (roughly 1000 turns to complete) instead of having the option to build a man-with-stick in a few turns to provide skeletal defences/cultural protection which I can upgrade with hard cash.

Then again maybe that would be cheating.

 

[Barker]

I'm a little confused.

My mother said that we should be allowed to remove the units from the list, but my father is dead set against it.

Who do you love best they ask me?

Well, I'm the original mamma's boy, a real tit-clutcher.

 

[TheDS]

I'm confused here. You mean to tell me it never occured to you to go into the editor and give those units something to upgrade to? Don't forget to mark the "Upgrade" checkbox too; simply specifying a unit to upgrade to isn't enough.

Most of my units upgrade into something else. I kept the Warrior (or Jaguar Warrior for the Atzecs) because they are the cheapest and just as effective at quelling rioters as the more expensive Mech Infantry.

Another thing to take care of is that some civs can't build some units. For instance, France can't built musketmen - they build musketeers instead - and so pikemen is a dead end for France, as is anything else you set to upgrade to musketmen. In this case, you will have to allow France to also build musketmen.

When I installed the 1.21f patch, some of the upgrade paths indicated that dead ends would be skipped over, but I didn't test that to make sure the bug had been fixed. Some feed back on that - if France by default can still upgrade pikemen to Musketeers - would be nice. I'm in the middle of a long game right now.

 

[Creepster]

I use the older units as a cheap way to quell the resistors in a new city I have taken over. That way I can keep on attacking with my good units. Sometimes I will build them in modern times for that purpose. They are extremely cheap and I can have them in a turn as opposed to 3 or more for an Infantry.

Also I like to use the build que to avoid the governor suggesting anything to build. I tend to find the governors annoying and not really ever in synch with the direction I am going.

 

[Parsifal]

I did try to vote, but it kerpt saying
"The action you have attempted could not be performed as your session appears to be invalid. Click the below link to attempt this action again with a new session.
Try this action again!"

I tried several times and now I've given up. BTW, I was going to vote for the idea.

 

[CivMonger]

you guys think that majority rule applies to Firaxis? Anyway, I'll give it a shot, who knows, maybe it'll be on next patch, could already be there.

 

[Kilroy]

I have swordsman and longbowmen upgrading to marines - works for me.