Office of the Judiciary - Term 5

You know, dis, that this could be much more simply settled by asking the new president, in the first turn chat, to stop playing after the game was created, and post it for review. Extensive polling was not needed.

As to my opinion, my thought is that these were informational polls, not binding in any way. Also, the closure of the polls was action against what was considered an atttempt at an official, binding poll.
 
The closure was illegal also if a poll would have beed declared bindig. A notice in there of invalidity and maybe a mod-edit of the 1st post would have been far enough.
Instead, eklek overexteded his powers.
 
I wonder if "requesting" to close a poll is restricting free speech. He is not the one that stopped the poll. OTOH, did the mods reserve anything for judgement on the closure?
 
The poll that I closed was closed because two members of the judiciary stated that it was definately invalid, and one requested that it be closed. This particular poll also assumed a result from another poll started at about the same time. The poll was going to have to be run again, anyway, so to avoid confusion, it was closed.

I am taking no further actions as a moderator on this forum until all of you stop squabbling, and begin to prepare for the next game in an orderly and polite fashion. This is mostly because, no matter what actions I take right now, someone is going to raise a fuss. Other members of the game feel the same way, and this attitude is extremely detrimental to the game itself.
 
We should anyways discuss the matter of closures for the next game to prevent confusion there.

Anyways, the poll presumed a result of another poll, yes. But this is normal if you want to poll on details at the same time that other things... how else could we do that?
Imagine a situation like this:
Poll1: Do we want to plant spies?
Poll2: If yes to poll1, to whom?
They could be started together without confusion. This would reduce polling times to 3 days for both, which will fit into a chat schedule. If both polls would be held one after another, it would take 6 days to complete them, which will run over a chat and may render them to late.

The turn-1 polls were done in the same fashion, and they are even only informational.

The point here: Of course it is senseless to pi someone at the endgame. Of course it may be confusing and the polls maybe wouldnt have met binding standards.

BUT I STRICTLY RESIST THIS GAME BECOMING A POLL-CLOSURE GAME! If citizens cant express their will any more, even in polls, this is bad. If only 2 citizens decide over closure of things, this is even worse.
We didnt need it before, we wont need it in the future!

And another thing: If we close one poll which is invalid, why not almightyjoshs rebel-poll? It does in no way tell which type it is nor meet ANY standards.

Same measure for all things, i say. And no closing of any threads without need for it!

EDIT:
*joking*:
hey eyrei! if you dont do your mod-work, you will be pi'ed for not fullfilling your duty! remember rain!
 
I'm going to interupt discussion here to say: Hello. After an appointent by Chieftess, and subsequent council approval, I am the new Chief Justice.

*feels intimidated by the fact other members of the judiciary are much older then him*

Oh, and Shaitan, can I have the gavel? :D
 
Originally posted by Octavian X
Oh, and Shaitan, can I have the gavel? :D
You may have a gavel. MY gavel shall serve only as an object of desire for you. Heartachingly close yet never to be touched. ;)

Seriously though, If you'd like a gavel I have an excellent backup gavel that you could use.
 
disorganizer, please submit your request for PI in the proper format (I held the two people who charged you to the same standard).

I will tell you now though that I will move for immediate dismissal on no merit. I can't see how REQUESTING to have a poll closed is a violation, or extending of powers that Ek doesn't even have. Your only charge could be against Eyrei who is the person who actually closed the thread, and that was a moderator action which I cannot prosecute in the game.

What may surprise you is that I personally don't mind you stepping up and putting forward ideas, especially in the vacuum that exists with no leadership being shown between games. Some of your ideas I don't like, and others I think are quite good, but you might find more success if you attempt to convince others of your plan prior to jumping right into the vote.

I'd suggest that you simply take the advice of the many people who have asked you to simply discuss your ideas first

Judge Advocate
 
And finally a request to all...

Please stop using the Judiciary to get back at others. The purpose of our game is to push for majority opinions and consensus. Not to turn to PI's each time a group of others disagrees with you.

If I had the power (and I don't dis...so don't be calling for my PI ;-), I would place ban on all PI's until the next game begins.

I agree with Eyrei. Lets focus our discussions and energies on preparing for conquest...errr...I mean victory(!) in our next game.

Oh, and congratulations to Octavian on his appointment to our Chief Justice position.

Bill
Judge Advocate
 
Personally, I'm also surprised that we're still PI'ing people when the game is clearly over. I don't think the Civ2 demogame had this much chaos at the endgame. :)
 
I don't think the Civ2 demogame has a investigation mechanism. I'm just glad this turmoil occured at the end of the game, not during it. Perhaps this could've been avoided if we started right after we won...
 
This could propably have been avoided if we would discuss changing some things rather than sitting there and doing nothing.
Most of our leaders left obviously because of what? no interest?
Well, and the last few days showed we still have some laws to finetune.
So officials, START WORKING!
 
I think there should be a law that states that in cabinet and senate votes, no discussion is allowed by citizens, if a citizen wants to be heard he should PM his respective official, this would cut down on anyone who make the wrong comments or cause any problems like it seems to have done at the end of demogame 1. It needs some fine tuning and if anyone is keen on this idea dont hesitate to maybe add your two cents worth. We need something in place to stop the madness that has and is occuring. i think we all know what i mean. :)
 
Discussion has been allowed in Cabinet/Council/whatever votes at least since term 2 (I can't speak for term 1 - that was before my time :)), and this is to my knowledge the first time it's resulted in this kind of situation. Hopefully the last, too :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
I think there should be a law that states that in cabinet and senate votes, no discussion is allowed by citizens, if a citizen wants to be heard he should PM his respective official, this would cut down on anyone who make the wrong comments or cause any problems like it seems to have done at the end of demogame 1. It needs some fine tuning and if anyone is keen on this idea dont hesitate to maybe add your two cents worth. We need something in place to stop the madness that has and is occuring. i think we all know what i mean. :)

I am against making ANY more new laws especially ones that would restrict free speech. I would also point out that we do not have a federal representative democracy. All of our officials are elected nation-wide. In order to get the answers I sought I would have had to post in every province thread or pm every senator. It is much easier to ask the question and get the responses right in the vote thread. If we are to protect citizen's rights then we should be making it easy to get answers from elected officials. That said I do agree that the discussion thread would have been the best place for the question but with over one hundred posts in that particular thread only two senators made a post there and one of those posted afterr the senate vote began. If you ask me that is the madness!

We have been hampered and distracted by rules since term one. The answer is not to make more rules but to get rid of many of the one we have now.
 
But the senate thread is not official. It was built by the personal initiative of one senator. Though the idea is good.

I also second donsig here (i must be ill. i seconded him for about 20 times in the last days) for that we need more rules on other things which are not yet covered, but delete many others. and i also must strictly deny and attack on the free-speach-artilce. it would be discussable if any law or standard could be enforced if it would restrict speaking right though... maybe a streamlineing of our rules is needed.
what about going back to a really basic ruleset and evolve "how-to's" over time by citizen vote?
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
what about going back to a really basic ruleset and evolve "how-to's" over time by citizen vote?

I think we should do that but we already brought that up when the game ended and we decided via poll to keep the current rules in force. :(

The choice was made. Let's move on and get the second game going.
 
k' nevertheless we should try the oposite way, like destroy laws from inside be deleting them law by law or refining them law by law.
(uups, did i speak that out loud?)
 
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