OFFICIAL Doughnut Embassy

[fe3333au]

Document arrived at turn 30

The Doughnutian people would like to extend an invitation to be
research and trade partners and would like a friendship pact with the
Greek people. A coalition between the MIAs and Doughnuts would be
feared by any and all other people in the world.

We propose to sign a treaty between our two peoples to solidify a
partnership if this is mutually desireable. We seem to be a bit ahead
of your nation in research, but a partnership could benefit us both
with your legendary military might. Any such treaty would have to
include information exchange on tech paths and ability, maps, etc. to
speed each of our civs into a new age. Non-aggression pacts and war
plans are all negotiable.

What is your current research path? We may be able to help further you
along immediately by gift or exchange.

We feel that the closer we work together, the further along we will be
in relation to any and all other nations in the world. Let us open up
a new era in each of our nations' history!

Sincerely

Killercane

 

[Kentharu]

whats happening? where is the meeting? whats going on!!!!
i just woke up for this so where is it?? please tell me i got the times right its !0am EST right?

 

[General_W]

I believe it was actually at 9am EST. But the D'nuts were a no-show.

See the bottom of this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3070574#post3070574

 

[fe3333au]

In that case ... and I'm sorry RL issue occured ... not absolutely sure but maybe ask for more time or go with the KISS revision ??

 

[peter grimes]

I'd really like to help with the KISS revision, but I can't spend any time on it for another 5 or six hours. If that's not going to work, let's send them back something, including a clause they definitely would not sign to (but we would profit from). That way they will at least be forced into a second revision.

I liked the idea of every other Ksettler being placed by us, and then once the city is founded, Kcity gifted to Mia. They'll never go for it, plus I think it's illegal at this point in the game.

 

[fe3333au]

I thought that it is OK since our cities appear on the trading screen ... but havn't scanned the rules ... tired must sleep

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Sorry! I thought it was AM, he thought PM. We will be having the chat in about 20 min, if you wanan join get on MSN or AIM and IM me.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Here’s the info on the chat:

First off they want to know if we can agree not to trade any techs we get from them. They pretty much know we know KISS. However, I was not given authorization to confirm that so I did not.

Second, depending if we approve of the first, to trade BW, IW, Wheel, WC, and Free MA tech for Writing.

One of the worst deals I have ever heard of.

Along with second, another deal they want to know about. BW and Wheel for Pottery.

Also a bad deal.

I tried to haggle, but it didn’t work. I think they are givng outrageous deals to get us into a full tech alliance. I say we take it and take out kiss. What you think?

Chat:
casey j says:
Hey I just reviewed our convo, and it seems I was was way wrong on the time. Sorry about that, it must have sucked for you to get up that early. I apologize, and should have touched based with you to confirm
Emp. Napoleon says:
It's fine, I'm used to it (I had to do that for a long time in the ISDG) but I do need to give my goverment a change to attend, give me 5 more min
casey j says:
sure no problemo
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok then, it's our turn
casey j says:
alright
casey j says:
the way we see it is we are not looking for a fight with you, and would rather work together against the other two
Emp. Napoleon says:
something liek that
Emp. Napoleon says:
(if you wanna invote your goverment, I don't mind)
casey j says:
I put up a message, no one is attending. They put forth their thoughts and wishes, and if we can get an agreement together we'll vote and get it done. I have a pretty good feel for what everyone wants though so voting shouldnt be an issue (just in case you need to move on something right away, since the save is delayed for I assume this meeting)
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we were in the market for techs
casey j says:
alright you want writing and thats all?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pretty much any techs, but writing is one of them
casey j says:
the other one is pottery that you are after? dont have that settler factory running just yet?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pottery is another possiblity
casey j says:
the way we figure it is, writing is pretty damn expensive, and putting that out there for only IW, bronze, and warrior code is probably not going to happen. We dont want any 2 fers with other civs and want to keep either everyone backward or everyone outside of a Greco-Iro alliance backward
casey j says:
but we are always willing to listen to ideas
casey j says:
I figure we can be the dominant two powers in the game if we want to be
Emp. Napoleon says:
2 fers?
casey j says:
2 fer: say you get writing and know Persia who knows Math, and you trade writing for math. You would get 2 techs for one tech because as the middleman because we dont know persia
Emp. Napoleon says:
I see
Emp. Napoleon says:
but once we both know Persia, let's say, we can set up some things to benifet the two of us
casey j says:
Yes
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about IW and Wheel for Writing
casey j says:
Probably not. Wheel is naturally important to us, but we can get it quickly via research. Iron is a priority for every civ but us.
Emp. Napoleon says:
well tech cost wise you will make out
Emp. Napoleon says:
and do you already have IW?
casey j says:
certainly we would, but writing opens up a lot of possibilities
casey j says:
for you
Emp. Napoleon says:
and would bring much trust to our nations
casey j says:
Trust between our nations would begin with a pact outlining a tech agreement.
casey j says:
Our information indicates we could make a formidable alliance. Would you be willing to sign a non-aggression pact spanning to turn 100 or so?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we are not that interested in a full on ulta-tech alliance, but a non agression pact could be considered
Emp. Napoleon says:
right now, we just wanna trade techs/money for techs/money
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about this: V - Non-Agression Agreement
Neither nation shall attack any unit of the other nation.

Neither nation shall pillage the improvements of the other without prior
approval.

Neither nation shall intentionally block the movement of the other.
Emp. Napoleon says:
that's from an old APO-CFC treaty back in MSDG
casey j says:
So the offer on the table is BW, IW, Warrior Code, and the Wheel for Writing?
Emp. Napoleon says:
o no
casey j says:
We do have a monopoly on writing
Emp. Napoleon says:
I don't know
Emp. Napoleon says:
wheel and IW for writing, e may be able to toss in some gold
casey j says:
how much
Emp. Napoleon says:
a lump sum, let's say 10
Emp. Napoleon says:
but I havent approved this with my goverment yet, so we are jsut talking right now
casey j says:
absolutely this is just talking to get a feel for each other. We have writing at monopoly. That opens up Mapmaking, CoL, Philo, Lit, and ultimately Republic. Its a crucial tech that the others cant research right away. We are intent on keeping it close to our vest.
casey j says:
but an offer we cant refuse? well I have a good feel for what we would take for it. We really dont want to drop a warrior stack by your hoplite defended cities to give you a despotic golden age
casey j says:
we would rather work together
Emp. Napoleon says:
o yes, I think we would too
Emp. Napoleon says:
are you slinging?
casey j says:
well now thats a loaded question. I'm allowed to give information in exchange for information.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, as of now, we are not
casey j says:
we realize that, since you just got warrior code recently
casey j says:
now if we could work up a republic plan that woudl benefit both of us, that would be great
casey j says:
your plans do include a republican government rather than a monarchy correct?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I cant say, no one from my goverment is on, but let's assume so for now
casey j says:
ok what would be the quickest way for both of us to get there?
casey j says:
assuming we have a tech agreement
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I don't think we have alpha yet, but we will start reserching in about 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
help in that would be good, and in exchange we could give IW or something else
casey j says:
you are the Greeks correct?
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes
casey j says:
you start with alphabet
casey j says:
do you mean writing?
Emp. Napoleon says:
err sorry
Emp. Napoleon says:
forget about that, so we would need help on writing
Emp. Napoleon says:
and you philosophy and us Code o' laws
casey j says:
so you're doing the wheel right now?
casey j says:
If we were to give you writing for all the other stuff, how soon could you have Code of laws?
Emp. Napoleon says:
we are finishing up IW
casey j says:
so finish up Iron, okay, and then you would do Code of Laws?
Emp. Napoleon says:
possibly, but liek I said, I would need to check with my goverment
casey j says:
of course, and I with mine.
casey j says:
do you still only have the two cities? I havent checked in the last couple of turns.
Emp. Napoleon says:
nor have I, I just do diplomancy
casey j says:
We just dont want to be waiting forever for you to do CoL (300 beakers). If you only have the two cities, it might take you 25-30 turns.
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes I see
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I can't say how lng it will take
casey j says:
Its a tough call. You will have the wheel, warrior code, and iron working in 4 turns. I might be able to sell my government on writing for your MA tech, but without a settler factory in your capital and good research speed I dont know if doing the writing deal makes sense.
Emp. Napoleon says:
doesn't make sence?
casey j says:
for us, I mean.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I know philio is cheaper
Emp. Napoleon says:
we could do that, and then you do CoL, but I need to check with my goverment how long it would take
casey j says:
how would we know, if we were to do that, that you wouldnt take a free mapmaking and land a galley of hoplites to pillage our poor little improvements?
Emp. Napoleon says:
fre mapmaking?
casey j says:
philo gives you a free technology.
Emp. Napoleon says:
mind if I invite a team member
casey j says:
sure go ahead
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, he might join us in a few min
casey j says:
**** texas those bastards. sorry for my french.
Emp. Napoleon says:
anyways, we could use that tech for CoL, then ge Republic
Emp. Napoleon says:
lol
casey j says:
what tech, philosophy?
Emp. Napoleon says:
we get that, and use taht on CoL, and you go for someting else
Emp. Napoleon says:
with CoL we get republic
Emp. Napoleon says:
and chare
Emp. Napoleon says:
share
casey j says:
well we may have CoL done, and would want to take republic for free for ourselves. we are trying to decide if we want you as research partners or not. If so, we would want you to have republic as soon as possible for the increased science potential. Hence we are looking at a deal. Plans are highly susceptible to change right now; what is your beaker per turn rate?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't say, I don't know; some of my goverment officals may come on tonight, I can ask them then
casey j says:
alright.

Kentharu has been added to the conversation.

casey j says:
hello
Kentharu says:
hello, ill just be observing
casey j says:
sure no problem. Emperor, do you mind if I post our discussion so far for my team to keep them up to speed?
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok so it looks like we wont get writing then for IW & the wheel?
casey j says:
probably not
casey j says:
especially if you dont have IW just yet
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we will get it in 4 turns, we will be jsut about done by the time the deal is ratified on your side, and oked on mine
casey j says:
I really doubt it, but of course I can take that back to my team. I think they would really want a better deal though, which would encompass either a no trade clause in regards to writing, adding in warrior code to better the deal, or an agreement to give us your free MA tech.
Emp. Napoleon says:
you mean that we wil not trade writing?
casey j says:
Yes, you cant trade writing to the Persians or the Celts
casey j says:
is what that would mean
Emp. Napoleon says:
we can talk about that too
Emp. Napoleon says:
but why do you want to limit it?
casey j says:
so that any neighbors we might have would be as backward as possible
Emp. Napoleon says:
good idea
Emp. Napoleon says:
I have wonderful news, I've jsut been informed that we already have IW, so we could ship that out soon
casey j says:
and more susceptible to being destroyed by our troops
casey j says:
so what is your offer?
Emp. Napoleon says:
one moment
casey j says:
sure. do you mind if I post this discussion and keep my team apprised of the situation?
Emp. Napoleon says:
o yes, you may
Emp. Napoleon says:
I'll be doing the same thing at the end anyways for us
casey j says:
alrighty
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
here is the deal, do you have Bronze working?
casey j says:
what is the deal?
Emp. Napoleon says:
first I need to know if you have BW?

Kentharu has left the conversation.

Emp. Napoleon says:
becuase we can offer it too you
casey j says:
we dont have bronze working
Emp. Napoleon says:
BW & IW
casey j says:
Nope not going to happen.
Emp. Napoleon says:
IW would get you Iron on the map you know
casey j says:
Yes it would.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, well I'll stop haggling you there
Emp. Napoleon says:
let's see, BW, WC, CB, for WRiting
casey j says:
you have ceremonial burial right now?
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes
casey j says:
and you have the wheel as well or is it due in 4 turns?
casey j says:
naturally we would want the wheel rather than CB
Emp. Napoleon says:
that's due in about 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
could be more or less, about that though

Kentharu has been added to the conversation.

casey j says:
ok
Kentharu says:
hi again
casey j says:
heya
casey j says:
so the Celts are to your north?
Emp. Napoleon says:
sorry, parents
casey j says:
no problem i know how that can be
Emp. Napoleon says:
don't want them to see chat boxes, ask to many questions
Emp. Napoleon says:
BW and Wheel in 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
then give us writing
casey j says:
yep you could be talking to strippers for all they know
casey j says:
Not going to happen.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, what do you want for writing
casey j says:
BW, iron working, Wheel, Warrior code, and your free MA tech. My team would do that. Anything less and probably not, though I could try to convince them.
casey j says:
if we signed some sort of agreement on techs
Emp. Napoleon says:
that is a lot, and I must say we probally will go for that, but I will bring that back anyways
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about pottery, you have that right?
casey j says:
yes, for sale
Emp. Napoleon says:
waht are you in the market for i that
casey j says:
well the Celts have pottery, are you not wanting to pick that up from them?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't answer questions about other civs, I only work with you guys and do not have athority. But what do you want for Potterry
casey j says:
well you obviously know the Celts right?
casey j says:
We could do pottery for Iron working and the Wheel
Emp. Napoleon says:
now that is way too much
casey j says:
that would probably allow you to trade for mysticism from the Celts and come out ahead of us
Emp. Napoleon says:
do they have it?
Emp. Napoleon says:
mysticism?
casey j says:
I dont know, but it would make sense for them to research it since they would have a monopoly.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, so first you want a promise from us not to trade techs with other teams, or just the ones we get from you?
casey j says:
just the ones you get from us.
casey j says:
Do you know Persia or the Celts?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't say, I do not have athority, I hope you understand
casey j says:
we know you know one of them
Emp. Napoleon says:
like I said, I do not ahve the athority to speak about that, you will need to talk to goverment officals
casey j says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
so first you want a promise from us taht we will not trade techs from you guys to other teams?
casey j says:
Yes is that going to work on your end?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can ask, and will we recive the same agreement with you guys
casey j says:
yes, if we do it.
casey j says:
but like I said, writing is expensive.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, we will get that first, in the meantime we will discuss your offer with writing if we approve of the no trade tech agreement
Emp. Napoleon says:
and we will consider your offer for pottery (BW&Wheel)
casey j says:
The original offer was iron working and the wheel for pottery. But if the counteroffer is Bronze and wheel for pottery, we will consider that.
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, you need BW before IW
casey j says:
Yes you do. Bronze and CB are the cheapest techs in the game.
Emp. Napoleon says:
actually Potery and CB are that's why I am so hesitant on how much you want for Potteryu
casey j says:
Pottery is an important tech. Since you know the Celts, why do you want pottery so bad?
casey j says:
if you can get it from them
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes, it is important I guss, more than value
Emp. Napoleon says:
but I will get that no tech thing going on in our forums, and the deal on Writing (BW, IW, WHeel, WC, and Free MA tech) and Pottery (BW and Wheel)
casey j says:
alright sounds good

I should have made it clearer, but I really would like to recive orders about what I am to get at these chats, and what I can offer, it makes things easyer.

 

[peter grimes]

I think they are givng outrageous deals to get us into a full tech alliance. I say we take it and take out kiss. What you think?

They feel they have a monopoly on writing. As it stands, we are in a (hopefully) good spot to get writing in 15 turns or less from KISS. DNUTs may not yet have met TNT, but they know we have met at least one team, and they correctly surmise (over and over in the chatlog) that it's KISS.

Dnuts are shaping up to be foes, rather than friends. They see themselves as stronger (right now they are) and they see us as potintial enemies, capable of forming an alliance with someone other than them.

I'm starting to think that Continental alliance is a slightly warmer option than northern/southern hemispherical alliance.

Ace in the hole would be clandestine alliance with TNT. But that's speculation for a day far, far away...

The chatlog from DNUTs speaks volumes. Everyone should read it. They are well informed (F11), well versed in game strategy, and are a force to be reckoned with. They were hot to clamp us down close by their side. Maybe that's the best reason to forge our own treaties?

Think about it: Two contacts, both of which were bullying us about our lack of granaries. Two contacts, both wanted to lock us into exclusive secret tech trade dealios. Two contacts, both a little (for lack of a better word) paranoid...?

Can't wait to hear Feaurius IV's reactions.

Thanks again to our Stalwart Ambassadors. We need to figure out some medals they can trumpet around on their chests. They've certainly earned their triple salaries tonight.

 

[fe3333au]

First off they want to know if we can agree not to trade any techs we get from them. They pretty much know we know KISS.

Good clause

Second, depending if we approve of the first, to trade BW, IW, Wheel, WC, and Free MA tech for Writing.
One of the worst deals I have ever heard of.

Outrageous !!!

Along with second, another deal they want to know about. BW and Wheel for Pottery.
Also a bad deal.

You said it Buddy!!!

I tried to haggle, but it didn’t work. I think they are givng outrageous deals to get us into a full tech alliance. I say we take it and take out kiss. What you think?

I think that with KISS even if we cannot modify the deal they offer ... at least we get to keep our pants on

casey j says:
Hey I just reviewed our convo, and it seems I was was way wrong on the time. Sorry about that, it must have sucked for you to get up that early. I apologize, and should have touched based with you to confirm

Yeah ... Oh well ... Appology accepted ...

Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we were in the market for techs
casey j says:
alright you want writing and thats all?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pretty much any techs, but writing is one of them
casey j says:
the other one is pottery that you are after? dont have that settler factory running just yet?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pottery is another possiblity
casey j says:
the way we figure it is, writing is pretty damn expensive, and putting that out there for only IW, bronze, and warrior code is probably not going to happen. We dont want any 2 fers with other civs and want to keep either everyone backward or everyone outside of a Greco-Iro alliance backward

They knew about our want for Pottery because this was mentioned in the prelim talks ... However i Don't like the Arrogance of the dont have that settler factory running just yet? ... (it is good that we have been hiding our settler production)

casey j says:
2 fer: say you get writing and know Persia who knows Math, and you trade writing for math. You would get 2 techs for one tech because as the middleman because we dont know persia

Yeah Twas an option we were indeed musing over

casey j says:Our information indicates we could make a formidable alliance. Would you be willing to sign a non-aggression pact spanning to turn 100 or so?

Everyone is analysing each other ... actually many references to this ... another was do you still only have 2 cities ...

Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, what do you want for writing
casey j says:
BW, iron working, Wheel, Warrior code, and your free MA tech. My team would do that. Anything less and probably not, though I could try to convince them.
casey j says:
if we signed some sort of agreement on techs

Hard Dealers

Emp. Napoleon says:
how about pottery, you have that right?
casey j says:
yes, for sale
Emp. Napoleon says:
waht are you in the market for i that
casey j says:
well the Celts have pottery, are you not wanting to pick that up from them?

Hmmmm ... I suggest that they have either met KISS or TNT ... and again another below

casey j says:
well you obviously know the Celts right?

casey j says:
We could do pottery for Iron working and the Wheel

Arrogant ... Arrogant ... Arrogant ...

Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, so first you want a promise from us not to trade techs with other teams, or just the ones we get from you?
casey j says:
just the ones you get from us.

I like this clause ... well though ... allows trading with other teams ... now why would they have that eh??

casey j says:
Do you know Persia or the Celts?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't say, I do not have athority, I hope you understand
casey j says:
we know you know one of them

OK ... maybe they havn't met TNT ... but they know that we have too many techs (I guess)

casey j says:
Pottery is an important tech. Since you know the Celts, why do you want pottery so bad? if you can get it from them

At least we are confusing them

I should have made it clearer, but I really would like to recive orders about what I am to get at these chats, and what I can offer, it makes things easyer.

Hmmm ... You had orders ... but things changed when they straight up opened with no tech dealing with others and also the importance that placed on writing ...

I think we still need to tweak the way diplomacy occurs ...
There is too much weight being placed on the chat sessions ... and then the time chosen is a big factor due to our teams being scattered around the planet ...

My thoughts .. it seems that a document needs to be sent first ... and I feel that these far reaching deals are just too important for ANY one person to agree to ...

I want people to place comments on this here

Regarding my thoughts on D-Nuts

I think that they are extremely arrogant ... and we would be in a better place aligning with KISS ... I doubt that D-Nuts will be able to strong arm TNT as much as they feel they can with us ...

 

[Chamnix]

They are just stupid - tell them that thanks to their extortionate demands we will research pottery next. It is so cheap that we will have it completed in 4 turns easily without even running 100% research so we will be accumulting gold for future deficit spending on research or future military upgrades (and this is not an exaggeration - we can do this now even without growth). We do not have a granary prebuild right now so getting pottery earlier is not even helpful to us (except we would like it before we pop huts). I hope they enjoy the 15+ turns they spend researching Iron Working and the Wheel.

 

[peter grimes]

Man! Just send Chamnix's blurb right back at them!

I wish.

The reason we were going after pottery from DNUTs was to trade WC, BC, and IW - preventing KISS from having anything to trade with DNUTs. I'm really surprised they didn't see through that (at least admit to it.)

I also feel that their bullying posture was not exactly what I'd like to strap myslef to for the forseeable future. At least KISS is friendly and humble.

 

[classical_hero]

That has to be one of the worst chats I have ever seen. They were trying to dominate us when we clearly had better techs. Just show them the tech costs and they will see that they are out of their minds.

 

[fe3333au]

Sending your Tech List ... Good Idea Classical Hero

And I think something like this ... to respond to the meeting

To Team Doughnuts

Thank you for meeting with us, however we feel that your deals are somewhat onesided and totally over estimate the value of the technologies that you wish to deal and dramatically under estimate our techs ...

I attach an easy to read table of relative values for technologies ... please read thoroughly to understand our point of view.

We are open to peace between our peoples however agreements must be mutually beneficial to everyone concerned ...

We await your next proposal as you are now aware of what we can trade ... and where we stand.

I would also like to enclose a gift from MIA to show that we are an honourable peoples ... a flag ... as we notice that you have none posted on the UN team thread

Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA

Havn't sent yet ... will await input and send in 15ish hours

 

[classical_hero]

I think that is good.

 

[peter grimes]

I still like Chamnix's response better. Their deals were downright insulting. If that's their idea of 'trading' then maybe our Curragh should 'trade' a few flaming arrows with them.

But seriously, I think the draft is a little too easy on them.

 

[Chamnix]

Obviously my language has to be toned down some (that’s why we have diplomats ), but I seriously think we should consider a message to the Donuts to try to pry Pottery from them again. They seem to view tech trading as a zero-sum game instead of mutually beneficial. Here are the facts to explain to them in a message (I think we are better off with a message than with the confusion generated in an additional chat, but that is also up to the diplomats):

1. If they do not trade us pottery, we will research it ourselves next (may not be true if we decide we don’t want a granary in Athens, but what the heck – if we don’t want a granary in Athens, then Pottery is completely useless to us anyway) after finishing the wheel in 1 turn.
2. It will take us exactly 4 turns to research pottery, and it will be at less than 100% enabling us to accumulate cash.
3. We do not have a granary prebuild right now, but we will be starting one (again maybe not true, but if not then Pottery is useless), so getting pottery sooner than the 5 turns does not help us.

So, by giving us Pottery, they are enabling us to start on our next research project 4 turns earlier – no more, no less. They are not helping us grow any faster which is what everyone seems to think Pottery magically does instantly.

Obviously, we would prefer to start on our next project 4 turns earlier and are willing to compensate them for helping us do that. Accordingly, we will save them time on a research project by giving them either Bronze Working or Warrior Code in exchange for Pottery. Either one is 50% more expensive than Pottery and will save them more time than they are saving us.

If this is explained clearly to them, and they are still too dense to recognize it as a great deal for them, then I don’t honestly expect we will ever trade any techs with them.

 

[Kentharu]

both are no deals, as i told Emp before, seeing the out come of that chat im very disappointed, not in our diplomat (great job btw) but they would be so bold and rude as to even think we would agree to ANY of that

 

[fe3333au]

Take 2 ...

To Team Doughnuts

Thank you for meeting with us, however we felt that your idea of a good deal was not only somewhat one-sided, but totally situated in the realms of fiction. Your diplomatic team totally over estimated the values of your technologies and dramatically under estimated ours ...

I attach an easy to read table of Relative Values for Technologies ... please read thoroughly to understand our point of view.

We are open to peace between our peoples however agreements must be mutually beneficial and fair to everyone concerned ...

We await your next proposal ... and in future require discussion points posted at least 24 hours prior to chat meetings ... and also that diplomats have limited agreement powers where discussions wildly divert from the agenda, these must be brought back so that all MIA citizens can comment.

Your team should now be aware of what we can trade ... and where we stand.

1. We require Pottery (which we can smartly research with little time wasted)
2. We require Writing ...

and can offer the following
>Ceremonial Burial
>Bronze Working
>Iron Working
>Warrior Code
>Wheel

In good faith and friendship and also to dispel any awkwardness that may exist due to the last meeting, MIA would like to enclose a gift from MIA to show that we are an honourable peoples ... a flag ... as we notice that you have none posted on the UN team thread

Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA

EDIT - added the bit about diplomat powers and that other stuff need to be taken back to the full team ...

 

[peter grimes]

looking good. Much more forceful in expressing displeasure at their hubris.

I would reword one thing, just so they understand peace is not contingent on trade (or is it?):

We are open to peace between our peoples however agreements must be mutually beneficial and fair to everyone concerned ...

We welcome peace between our people. But peace does not mean that trade must be one-sided. Trade, like peace, must be mutually beneficial.