- Dec 11, 2022
Do you think diplomats and foreign ministers should also be candidates for Leaders?
Maybe, then:Do you think diplomats and foreign ministers should also be candidates for Leaders?
I was actually thinking Talleyrand for FranceMaybe, then:
Klemens Von Metternich for Austria
Henry Kissinger for America
John Jay for America (Secretary of War, who cares)
Vittorio Orlando for Italy
As far as I'm concerned, adding him is just as bad as adding Hitler or Stalin, frankly.Henry Kissinger for America
Oh, sorry. I didn't know what he did.As far as I'm concerned, adding him is just as bad as adding Hitler or Stalin, frankly.
I still gave you what you wanted, right?I was actually thinking Talleyrand for France
I don't know what you mean?I still gave you what you wanted, right?
You still got a list of diplomats, right?I don't know what you mean?
If you want a meiji restoration era Japan you have to. Though in reality while Meiji was in charge and great at using the bully pulpit his position granted him, he was guided by his ministers.Do you think diplomats and foreign ministers should also be candidates for Leaders?
He wasn't nearly unique among historical monarchs, for this though...Though in reality while Meiji was in charge and great at using the bully pulpit his position granted him, he was guided by his ministers.
How the heck have the Inca been around as a playable Civ without their most obvious leader???
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I mean we already have Kronk, the best one, in game as Pachacuti.Eh, I'd prefer Yzma.
Especially when they held great power in addition to or even instead of the purported Leader, like:Do you think diplomats and foreign ministers should also be candidates for Leaders?
What are tributes Mongols (Including Kublai Khan of Yuan) extorted from Muscovy? is there any records of Muscovian concubine inside Yuan era Forbidden City?For Aleksandr of the Neva (Nevskii) his most important title was Grand Prince of Vladimir, which meant he was the highest-ranking Russian puppet under the Mongol khans of the Golden Horde based at Sarai (near modern Volgograd) on the Volga. While he was a very good military leader against the Christian west, he was completely subservient to the Mongols. That means his capital could be either Novgorod or Vladimir, but it also means he could do nothing without looking over his shoulder towards Sarai or Karakorum.
A better choice, and like Ivan IV also not a Romanov, would be:
Dmitrii Ivanovich (Demetrius Ioannovich)Donskoi - Dmitry of the Don, Prince of Moscow and Grand Prince of Vladimir and a Saint of the Orthodox church.
There are three great 'field battles' in Russian military history, and Dmitrii won the first of them: Kulikovo Field against the Mongol Golden Horde in 1380. He was the first Prince of Moscow to openly defy the Mongols and get away with it, because after Kulikovo by the Don River the Mongols never came back, Moscow stopped paying tribute, and under Dmitrii the city state of Moscow became the first really independent Russian polity and his son became Prince of Moscow without consulting the Mongol khans.
He also started the building of the Moscow Kreml (kremlin) in stone (there had been a wooden fort there for at least 300 years already) as a fortress, which put a punctuation mark on the independence of Moscow and the Muscovites. If anybody 'founded' independent Russia, it was Dmitrii, not Alekandr.
I'd still slightly prefer Ivan IV for Russia, though - also a pre-Romanov and also with a claim to 'founding' Russia - he was the first Grand Prince or Prince of Moscow to also adopt the title of Tsar of Russia.
Oh, I should have added Oxiensterna and Thomas Cromwell (better make it sure it's not Oliver!) What about Klemens Von Metternich or Vittorio Orlando? Were they just presidents/prime ministers or did you have a reason?Especially when they held great power in addition to or even instead of the purported Leader, like:
Shang Yang of Qin, China
Chanakya of Mauryan India
Alcuin of Charlemagne's court
Hasdai ibn Shaprut of Cordoba
Nizam al-Mulk of the SeljuqTurks
Gajah Mada of the Majapahits (who was a Leader in Civ V, I believe)
Tlacaelel of the Aztecs
Thomas Cromwell of England
Todar Mal of the Mughul Empire
Axel Gustaffson Oxiensterna of Sweden
Armand Jean du Plessis, Cardinal Richelieu (of course!)
Gaspar de Guzman y Pimental, Count-Duke of Olivares of Spain
Benjamin Franklin of the United States
Tallyrand, Charles-Maurice de Tallyrand-Perigord of France
George Marshall of the United States - a far, far better choice than Kissinger, besides which Henry is still alive.
That's the short list, anyway . . .
Complete with the wrong lever for a staff. (Why do we even have that lever?)I mean we already have Kronk, the best one, in game as Pachacuti.
Metternich is controversial. On the one hand, he dominated European diplomacy from the Congress of Vienna for half a century, on the other hand, he was absolutely against anything resembling constitutional government or just about any other kind of political or social or civic reform that threatened Absolute Autocracy supported by "a strong army, a secret police, and a compliant bureaucracy". You can still get historians arguing about him and his policies, so including him in the game would require extreme care.Oh, I should have added Oxiensterna and Thomas Cromwell (better make it sure it's not Oliver!) What about Klemens Von Metternich or Vittorio Orlando? Were they just presidents/prime ministers or did you have a reason?
I didn't know anything about Kissinger, sorry. What did he do?
The Mongols never collected just a single Tax or Tribute, and the methods of collecting changed during the 200 or so years in which it was collected (mid-13th century to late 15th century). They started by appointing Russians to do the collecting, and did not collect directly from Russian princes or city states until late in the period, and the total amount gathered seems to have varied.What are tributes Mongols (Including Kublai Khan of Yuan) extorted from Muscovy? is there any records of Muscovian concubine inside Yuan era Forbidden City?
I am really sorry for the pain you had to suffer in Vietnam. I didn't know that Kissinger was that bad. Please forgive me sir.Kissinger, where to start. I served in the Vietnam War and afterwards in the US military, so I kept track of Henry K because his machinations directly affected my Life and its potential curtailment. I think the best summary is that he attempted to play 19th century Realpolitik in the late 20th century and he reacted to events instead of directing them. And, IMHO, he has been almost uniformly wrong in his characterization of diplomatic events and actions for the past 50 years. And finally, he is still alive which puts him outside of Civ's usual selection criteria for named people in the game.