Old Deity BOs are suicide now?

[Arent11]

A great start is 7 production in you cap on T1 (sure you can get more but not v often) but 6 probably makes more sense to talk about. If you are very lucky your second pop can make +3 but often +2.
A builder gives +2/+3 normally to this (if you can use a builder) which is a big benefit % wise and you need every benefit on deity. Agoge is another +50% so that builder is still an aspiration but if you start in the middle of a continent it’s a stupid move, not so much for the civs which is a big thing but the barb scouts really do go everywhere fast and they will attack and spawning 7 units in 7 turns they are arguable worse than a civ early, especially as by the time you beat them up you are vulnerable to an AI which is likely to now come with archers.
A slinger is just too vulnerable to build first, you do need that warrior as @eleven11 implies, that’s what I would build central with no mountains. However in other situations like near the sea you have a good safe border, it’s faster for your warrior to circle (circling is such a key survival tactic) and it may be worth getting a scout out. Often a builder first is too fast if you need more than 1 tech to use its charges well so there is room for something else and the 100% vital thing to do first, as well as your warrior destroying a camp, is to stop scout getting visibility of your city.... and as a side note, a city on a hill is defensible but very visible (+1 tile). You know you cannot easily kill scouts but putting a scout in front of a barb scout normally sends it of somewhere else. With a barb and a scout (fast to build) and some mountain/shore protection you will normally survive, only when you feel safe and to agoge would I send my scout further, it is too useful during attacks when you have few troops to send it exploring.
If you are really well protected which I find happens every now and then I would go builder.
These strats work for me, I’ve played quite a few deity starts to T30 over the last 3 days just to check it out and so much depends on what civ you play. A seashore civ is safer but tends not to get the best terrain. A central location severely increases your risk of barb spawn. Playing Nubia it’s tempting to get a slinger first for the UU but I got Hammered 2/3 times for doing so. Never had issues with Monty as you really want to go warrior anyway and that extra strength just helps so much, Aztecs are again an awesome force in civ.
So bang that warrior out if at all unsure, it seems you have 300+ turns to win so as long as you chop and concentrate on your victory, you just have to survive... but always be aware that a builder is better given the chance to make it.
I would also consider visibility of capital, placing it on a hill is fine with no alternative but is a beacon to barbs. Settling on some tobacco in the grass with hills around you may be a better option.

That's nicely summing everything up, even things I didn't know (visibility of cities on hills). Something like that I would like to read in the severely empty war academy.

 

[Victoria]

That's nicely summing everything up, even things I didn't know (visibility of cities on hills). Something like that I would like to read in the severely empty war academy.

It’s not everything and a lot of detail is missing like the true value of that first enemy camp kill. Which is a paragraph by itself, but thanks anyway... here’s a better deal
Getting Rolled on Deity

 

[Arent11]

It’s not everything and a lot of detail is missing like the true value of that first enemy camp kill. Which is a paragraph by itself, but thanks anyway... here’s a better deal
Getting Rolled on Deity

I was referring to the issue that these questions/threads (build orders) arise again & again. It would be nice to be able to say: Read the articles in the war academy first.

 

[Victoria]

I was referring to the issue that these questions/threads (build orders) arise again & again. It would be nice to be able to say: Read the articles in the war academy first.

@Browd said some guides may move there soon.
Would you like me to flesh it out into a deity starting guide and get it put in there? I’m sure browd would if asked.
Certainly things like the experience guide should be there
But yes, repeat threads can get a little tiresome but they do bring up new things and also keep the forum moving

 

[Arent11]

@Browd said some guides may move there soon.
Would you like me to flesh it out into a deity starting guide and get it put in there? I’m sure browd would if asked.
Certainly things like the experience guide should be there
But yes, repeat threads can get a little tiresome but they do bring up new things and also keep the forum moving

I would do the work myself, but since I have a job & limited experience with civ 6 (compared to others), I feel others would be more qualified. I also don't want to ask/push anyone, because, well, you don't get paid for it And despite @Lily_Lancer sometimes exaggerating, he is right insofar that such work is sometimes ripped off.

 

[Victoria]

he is right insofar that such work is sometimes ripped off.

I really do not care about ripped off and I never claim what I write is mine.... I just want to clarify the rules, I love mechanics.

Here is a great example ... I started a game in a sort of unpleasant place on grass (random diety leader of Persia)... and these screen are a good example of the type of play I espouse. You may wonder why I settled where I did but its on Coffee with coffee next to it so 2 extra culture gets me to Agoge and the extra gold through trading coffee buys me a warrior.

Barbs are swarming toward my grassy home, I want to settle my settler on the yellow circle ASAP. By moving my scout to a hill it will misdirect a slinger while the top left warrior will solo my warrior where I am building a slinger at home and the French scout is forced to draw the other barb warrior toward my base but also slow it down

As the french scout tries to escape it traps itself but maybe if it goes onto the hjill it will survive and the second warrior will also attack my warrior.... My scout has done its job and leaves and my second city is secure.

And here we have a nicely broken up attack force and my scount can still help and even possible steal the camp

...and anyone that thinks barbs will always target you is incorrect... they will always target scouts as shown here ... thank you France

And there is always nice puzzles like how best to attack

... and my scout never went exploring as Lautro forward settled me .. free gift
Note the blocking and misdirection tactgics limiting his warriors coming to support the city. This would not be possible without the scout.

 

[Victoria]

... Winning on deity is just about doing the right thing at the right time, that is what you have to upskill yourself with, making the right call.
Despite what some may consider a poor start with no fresh water or production I'm at T54 with 5 cities and just got emergency gold for freeing Valetta... It really is game over, chariots being researched, will not be long to knights and my culture is booming as Persia. ... AND I stupidly declared an ancient formal war a so did not get my surprise move speed.
Nothing chopped and not much to chop so I will delay chopping until it's worth something but will probably stop soon as once you are away it can get a bit samey

 

[Cacimbinhas]

I got the Faster starting settler mod which allows your starting settler x1 extra move and ignores terrain (only applies to initial settler, all built ones revert to normal). I only use for deity games (AI cheat enough at this level) and it has made a lot of maps I may have had to reroll on, playable. On deity I always find the starting location is key to success. As Victoria said. any extra production that early is gold. I love the barbs aggression early game, this mod has made it easier surviving it without a massive cheat.

My ideal BO is scout-warrior-monument-slinger and hope my starting warrior gets another scout or builder from a hut. The more scouts you have, the more chance of an early relic which again, is a game changer for any victory type. But on deity, the more flexible and fluid you are to your surroundings and BO, the better

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I was referring to the issue that these questions/threads (build orders) arise again & again. It would be nice to be able to say: Read the articles in the war academy first.

I was referring to the issue that these questions/threads (build orders) arise again & again. It would be nice to be able to say: Read the articles in the war academy first.

I don't understand what you are crying about? As you have said the War Academy is Empty. In the 5 years I have read about Build Orders on this Forum you get your information from Strategy and Tips no matter if they are Peaceful or Not. Heck, in Civ V we had a few years where everyone was posting all sort of Deity, Immortal and Emperor Challenges and sharing their games and information. From my experience the Mods here catch many things and will move threads or join them together... they seem to be on top of things IMO.

 

[Arent11]

I don't understand what you are crying about? As you have said the War Academy is Empty. In the 5 years I have read about Build Orders on this Forum you get your information from Strategy and Tips no matter if they are Peaceful or Not. Heck, in Civ V we had a few years where everyone was posting all sort of Deity, Immortal and Emperor Challenges and sharing their games and information. From my experience the Mods here catch many things and will move threads or join them together... they seem to be on top of things IMO.

I didn't notice my comment came across as "crying" I just felt that basic stuff like comments about build orders could easily formatted into a short paragraph & sticked into the war academy until a more sophisticated article comes around.

 

[eleven11]

So... not sure what changed between my posts here and current.. but now I'm seeing hyper-aggressive barbs in my games now. Like, T5 scout finding me which turns into a T12 barbarian wave on my capital in every single game I start. I don't even have a chance to clear the camp. I thought maybe it was Japan so I tried Russia, France and Indonesia - same deal. Warrior -> Settler wasn't working so well.. So my BO has changed to warrior -> slinger and that seems to be doing ok. However, I'm hating the delay on the settler... because I'm usually DoWed between T20-30 it makes it really tight to get a 2nd city on the board first.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Slinger -> Builder. Get Mining first and chop 1-3 forests.

Safest and most consistent Diety BO.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

So... not sure what changed between my posts here and current.. but now I'm seeing hyper-aggressive barbs in my games now. Like, T5 scout finding me which turns into a T12 barbarian wave on my capital in every single game I start. I don't even have a chance to clear the camp. I thought maybe it was Japan so I tried Russia, France and Indonesia - same deal. Warrior -> Settler wasn't working so well.. So my BO has changed to warrior -> slinger and that seems to be doing ok. However, I'm hating the delay on the settler... because I'm usually DoWed between T20-30 it makes it really tight to get a 2nd city on the board first.

I had a run like that. It reminds of when I would play raging barbs on Civ V. I would have 5 to 10 games in a row where Barbs were all over the place and I would have long stretches where Barbs didn't seem to be anywhere. Same goes for me recently in Civ VI. I have had games where Barbs were crushing me and I would have a string of games where Barbs would not show up or bother me at all.

I tend to agree that chopping out an early Army is safe and straight forward. You lose the overflow with Magnus and waiting for policy cards but you can get an Army out very fast to do some Warmongering! Playing Diplomacy and not having a Barb Horse Army on your doorstep you can get out a quick settler as well if you like.