One good thought, one bad...

[Kael]

Specific to the topic at hand I may take a look at the handicap information to try to even things out a bit for lower difficulties (below noble). It would probably be a better curve to get new players in and having fun without having to immediatly adopt all of the FfH game strategies that they may not be to familiar with.

 

[Grey Fox]

I always hate to hear anyone say cheating. Do whatever is fun for you. If thats reloads, go for it. If thats getting untis out of the worldbuilder than more power to you. Just dont combine the "cheating" practice with complaints that the mod is to easy (and I know Xanikk hasnt).

I only said cheating because it's breaking the "rules" of the game. And I said it like this: "cheating" because its an opinion if its a cheat only. And also because I think its like cheating yourself.

 

[Xanikk999]

Im really sorry guys for going off topic. I wont reload anymore. Grey fox i sent you a PM.

 

[xanaqui42]

It's not just a question of having more units. You can through all the warriors you like at a hill giant, and it won't matter. It's like trying to throw enough beef into a meat grinder to choke it. You're just going to wind up with a lot of hamburger. Units show up early, powerful, and numerous that are just too strong to be beaten by anything I could even theoretically have. It's all well and good to say "just stay out of their way", but they quickly choke off ANY development or exploration. It may make sense for the game setting, or for fiction based on the backstory. But in terms of gameplay, it's neither fun nor challenging, it just means a trip back to the main menu for a do over.

My experience (at least based on .15f) is that enough warriors (3-4+) can take out a giant. Simuarly, 2-3 can take out a Giant Spider. I typically don't bother, though - they don't enter controlled areas, and they wander, so all I need to do is keep the units I want to protect away from them until I get something strong enough that it can kill them easily.

I actually like the slowdown to both exploration and development. Note, for example, that in many cases, all your opponents are having simular problems.

 

[blueparrot1966]

This is an interesting conversation on the barbarians. Most seem to disagree with me, but I'll stick to my guns. I like the RPG flavor of the mod, but how many pen and paper RPG's are there where the players must run for their lives from half the baddies out there? Of course brute strength doesn't always do it, being creative and thoughtful is what makes the game FUN, but that's the point- there's always SOME way to reach your objective. Mebbe the players can whack the orcs on the head, but must find a secret passage or a way to drop a boulder from above to deal with the giant spider...

But what about my "good" observation lol? Where does the art and music for this mod come from? It's consistently interesting, and really adds a lot. Is it original stuff, or is it from some RPG game system I don't know about?

 

[SKILORD]

This is an interesting conversation on the barbarians. Most seem to disagree with me, but I'll stick to my guns. I like the RPG flavor of the mod, but how many pen and paper RPG's are there where the players must run for their lives from half the baddies out there? Of course brute strength doesn't always do it, being creative and thoughtful is what makes the game FUN, but that's the point- there's always SOME way to reach your objective.

I'm not experienced with pen and paper RPGs so I can't comment on them, however I do assume that the balance of them varies wildly from game to game or person running it to person running it.

What I do know is Morrowind though. I also know Oblivion but to be honest Oblivion is like the ******ed kid brother of Morrowind and really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. In Morrowind you start, maybe you do a couple of missions around Seyda Neen (... I remember the name... yeah... wow...) and then you try to make it to Balmora and you probably have to take the fast travel way there because there are about a hundred ways to die easy on the first road in the game ((Speaking of cheating, unless you know the white/black button cheat on the Xbox or whatever cheats there are for the computer version, also speaking of cheating the happiest day of my life was when I realized I had forgotten all of the black/white button combos)), you will be running from stuff and trying to learn to deal with it later when you're stronger, it makes for a better experience than, for instance, Oblivion where you're guarunteed to be able to match anything you face no matter where in the game you are. Leaving challenging out of the equation altogether That isn't fun and it isn't cool, it is the very essence of boring and repetitive.

Just my 2 cents.

As for the "cheating" thing I don't usually reload for the same reason I don't usually win, because I really don't worry that much about it, Civ is to me what playing tea with stuffed animals is to little girls, I sit there and play out little stories with my cities and name 60% of my units with bizzare outlandish games and rarely do what is best for my civ if another option strikes me as shiney. However on occasional games when I want to simply dick around I'll go to the worldbuilder late in the game and totally screw around with everything, usually to the benefit of my nation. This gets done maybe one game out of ten and I doubt I would have fun with it if I did it any more than that, but the point isn't that that form of cheating is so heinous it makes reloading look like small potatoes, the point is that neither WCG, CAL, MLG or whatever nonsense DirectTV knockoff leagues there are do Civ4 and trying to make it about anything other than having fun and enjoying yourself detracts from the game.

Once again, I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm not saying anything against anyone (except for Bethesda, and thats not even anything against Bethesda, I don't really hate Oblivion it's just crap when you compare it to Morrowind) just my two cents and you're free to ignore it, hell you probably should.

But don't go hiding under your bed in shame if you reload.

Whatever's fun.

 

[Endovior]

I rarely have problems with the Barbarians... in fact, the game seems somewhat easier when playing with Raging Barbarians. Perhaps I'm just lucky, but the pattern seems to go as follows.

Start, found Capital in decent location (regen map if location = suck).

Explore a little.

Meet Barbarians.

Frantic rush to defend Capital from Barbarians.

Rush gets slightly less frantic as lucky units gain XP.

Stronger units now unlikely to die in battle, so long as they have a chance to rest in Capital between fights.

Existing defenders now competent to stop horde (and probably approaching 100 XP). Switch Capital from military production to economic growth.

Carve out a space for second city with your elite units.

(The rest isn't that hard... it's forseeable that your powerful Barb-Slayers will be powerful enough to take out opposing AI civilizations with little or no assistance.)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Speaking of cheating, when I was playing as Kuriotates for my game in the story forum, after I built my dragon, I wanted a huge dragon duel, so I went into WB and gave the Sheaim the Divine Essence tech. Cheating to give myself more of a challenge (cause most leaders like me) and for a better story.

'Course, when they built him and I had an inquisitor ready...

 

[feydras]

If you want a milder barbarian experience, you could chose a map with "pressed" shoreline or medium to higher water level, or more civs than normal. There will be less area for barbarians to spawn.

Nikis - could you explain the shoreline choices? i've never understood them.

Barbs - i love 'em the way they are. I love the it slows down early expansion and settlement. It makes the world seem more savage and dangerous. I used to set the game to raging barbs but as Endoviar laid out if you can survive the initial onslaught it actually makes the game feel to easy to me. I also like that jungle chop is so late for similar reasons, it slows down your civ's growth and balances nicely with positive ability to spring deserts.

- feydras

 

[Xanikk999]

Just an update... I havent reloaded for anything and i can deal with it when i lose a really high lvl xp unit to very very good odds.

It hurts but thats part of the game.

And if i lose a settler early on i just restart a new game now.

 

[Sureshot]

just dont ever put a settler in a situation that could possibly be dangerous. i always line the way to my city site with warriors

 

[Endovior]

Well, it depends. The Barbs in FfH are slow, so typically, I send in the garrison beforehand... then, if there's no fog of war between my borders and the city site, and there aren't any Barbs along the route, I won't use an escort. Even in the worst-case scenario (garrison gets taken out by Barb rush), the Settlers are still fast enough to escape.

I do note, however, that I have been using escorts in my latest game (Kuriotates, Prince). The Barbs are really nasty here, but I got Horseback Riding from a goody hut, and thus got Centaurs early on, and used them for area defense. The key is that if you don't have a unit handy that's capable of keeping up to your Settlers, it doesn't make sense to escort them.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Nikis - could you explain the shoreline choices? i've never understood them.

- feydras

Sure. There's a thread, I think in the customization--> tutorials section that breaks down all the map types, from that I gathered that the natural shorline includes more penisulas and bays, and the pressed option is flatter. (the one in the middle is in the middle )