Ongoing Citizen discussion: Slider settings

[Rik Meleet]

I sincerely hope you are right, TM, about the evolution of instructions and templates to better instructions. But I fear it will just depend on who we elect, some people are better instructors than others. Face it, if someone really doesn't post proper instructions there is very little we can do about that.

We'll win this game, no doubt in my mind. We are all experienced civ-players and many are experienced demogamers. There will be blunders, errors, misperception and negligence that will divert us from the "best path to victory", but the Monarchy-level allows this. The Deity/Emperor level players will address and remove the worst mistakes. That's why we chose Monarchy-level in the first place; if the general idea is sound, small (or even big) errors won't be devestating.

 

[Cyc]

I have to agree with TM90, here RM. donsig's point was a good one too. I believe we need to move forward as Leaders and thus Instruction writers. Putting a blanket "cover-all" Law into effect to cover vague guidelines, in an attempt to band-aid the real problem is not the way to go about it. I'm re-posting TM90's statement on this page so I won't have to go back to the first page to read it again.

Originally posted by TerminalMan90
@CT: I was thinking along the same lines as Donsig. If the DP is playing true to the instructions and the instructions are not "perfect" we get a more interesting game. Winning the DemoGame then becomes improving the quality of play of all our players, not just the DP or the chat attenders.

As VP, I help with the setting of the sliders. Each TC that takes place, I learn something new about how my slider instruction could have been better. That makes me a better player and a better VP.

If ALL the leaders are forced to put more effort and thought into their instructions, everyone will benifit. The game will become more 'perfect' and we will stand a better chance at actually winning the game.

It seems to me that half way through the second term, we are getting more instructions posted, better quality instructions and more 'templates' of how a good instruction is constructed. These templates will evolve as we make mistakes and have oversights that cause troubles in the turn chat.

As they say, we don't have to play a perfect game all the time. I know you had some rough times in the first Term because of poor Instructions, but that was not the Law's fault. If we keep pressing the issue that Leaders need to care enough to write detailed Instructions (even if some of them are cut and paste from one t/c to another), maybe it will happen one day. There's an optimistic point of view. That's all I'm asking, really. Let's try to do it the right way before we turn control over to the DP so they can change legal Instructions posted by Leaders. We shouldn't be allowing Judement calls from the DP to cover another Leaders responsibilities. That was covered in DGIVJR12 I believe (I'll check). The proverb about leaving the sleeping dog lie, comes to mind.

EDIT: Oopps! I was mistaken. The Judicial Review I was referring to was actually DGIVJR11.

 

[TerminalMan90]

Further to the template idea, it wouldn't hurt to ask the citizenry what instruction templates elected officials could use as possible guidelines. Perhaps this is an extra bureaucratic step and not necessary for the 'elete' players, but if lesser players had a recipe to follow, they might consider entering into leadership races more.

The intent is not to 'tell people what to do' but to inform them of what has worked in the past or perhaps what the citizenry would like to try in the future. The leaders would only use these templates if it suited their purpose (or perhaps if they were lazy) but they would still be required to post an instruction to the TC thread.

Just a thought.

 

[ravensfire]

[dance]

Woohoo! People are getting it!

TM - templates can be a great thing! As you pointed out, it helps everyone remember the little things that can get forgotten. The DP knows that the leaders will have at least thought about various situations. In addition, if instructions are generally in the same format, it's much easier for the DP to create a summary of the instructions ahead of time.

My compliments to all leaders this term - as a citizen the forethought that all of you have shown in the discussion is tremendous, and will surely help Fanatica in the future. Thanks!

To bring this somewhat back on topic, Furiey put together a cool little chart early on - would anyone be able to post a current version of that chart?

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire

 

[Furiey]

Ask and ye shall receive

1025 BC

Science %     Turns for Currency     Spare gpt
  100                  10               -1
   90                  10                0
   80                  12                5
   70                  13                6
   60                  15                9
   50                  16               10
   40                  21               17
   30                  21               18
   20                  21               21
   10                  21               24
    0                 Never             27

(I’d already half done this when I got distracted by the peace renegotiation discussion yesterday!)

edit: We currently have 230 gold (We will have 241 if the peace renegotiation goes through successfully)

 

[ravensfire]

Thanks!

What are our plans for the nice cash reserve we've got? Obviously one use is to upgrade our warriors to swordsmen when the Iron comes on line. Another is to buy techs/workers/etc. Finally, tribute/peace to other nations.

The only nation that has me concerned is Babylon. IIRC, their UU is the Bowmen, which I'm sure they have available. If we are truly concerned about an offense from them, we need to keep the slider more cash-oriented so we will be able to upgrade more warriors. If we think we can keep them happy, let's research this fairly quickly and use it for more trade-bait.

-- Ravensfire

 

[tao]

Originally posted by ravensfire What are our plans for the nice cash reserve we've got? Obviously one use is to upgrade our warriors to swordsmen when the Iron comes on line. Another is to buy techs/workers/etc. Finally, tribute/peace to other nations.

The only nation that has me concerned is Babylon. IIRC, their UU is the Bowmen, which I'm sure they have available. If we are truly concerned about an offense from them, we need to keep the slider more cash-oriented so we will be able to upgrade more warriors. If we think we can keep them happy, let's research this fairly quickly and use it for more trade-bait.

IMHO the possible uses are:

1. Buy slave workers whenever possible! (Absolute priority! Check each turn!)
2. Pay tribute, because our military is weak compared to Germany and Babylon.
3. Keep it to prepare for chariot(!!!) upgrades (even though we currently have none) and warrior upgrades.
4. Keep it for the great trading frenzy that will happen the turn map making becomes available. Maybe we have to buy mm initially.
5. Spend it fruitlessly on deficit research now.
   [/list=1]
   PS: Regarding Babylon, I often deliberately start a war with an ancient UU civ to make them waste their Golden Age in despotism. But I would not advise war w Babylon now.

 

[TerminalMan90]

550 BC Slider Setting table:

We are currently researching Construction in 22-40 turns
Current cash on hand is 267 gp

                Lux at 0%               Lux at 10%
Taxes(%)  Science(%) Net Tech In  Science(%) Net Tech In
--------  ---------- --- -------  ---------- --- ------- 
    0         100     -2   21         90     -2    22
   10          90      0   22         80      0    25
   20          80     +4   25         70     +4    29
   30          70     +8   29         60     +7    33
   40          60    +11   33         50     +8    34
   50          50    +12   34         40    +16    40
   60          40    +20   40         30    +17    40
   70          30    +21   40         20    +23    40
   80          20    +27   40         10    +25    40
   90          10    +29   40          0    +29    -- 
  100           0    +33   --

 

[Rik Meleet]

In my newly assigned role as T&T deputy I invite you to look at the possibilities of slider-settings, combined with specific techs.

What do we want ?

 

[TerminalMan90]

With all the nomination frenzy going on, our term two leaders seem to have forgotten that we have a government to run here.

I have continued my senate vote from the last TC and will wait until 10:30 MST tomorrow before posting these proposals into the instruction thread.

Please post your comments here or if you are a senate member, in the Government Term 2 Senate thread.