What are the advantages and disadvantages of open borders? Any exploits that I should know about? Also...I notice that when I have open borders with a civ, I cannot attack any of their cities. Is this like a sort of peace agreement? Someone please clarify this? Thanks.
Open borders
- Thread starter Asinius
- Start date
When you have open borders, you are at peace and can freely move in each other's territories. Upon a Declaration of War, any units inside the borders are evicted.
Advantages: increase in diplomacy pluses, mobility, investigating neighbor
Disadvantages: neighbor could slip settlers thru your territory and grab a spot you'd plan to use
Advantages: increase in diplomacy pluses, mobility, investigating neighbor
Disadvantages: neighbor could slip settlers thru your territory and grab a spot you'd plan to use
Dresden
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,081
Some other reasons to have open borders:
Additionally, there are diplomatic implications because if you have Open Borders with the "Worst Enemy" of another AI they may ask you to stop trading with that nation; you then basically have to choose which one you'd like to make angry.
Generally I will have OB only with my allies who I want to keep friendly. I also will sign a "temporary" OB (i.e. one that I expect to cancel soon after the 10 turns are up) if I want to do something like throw a massive missionary assault at them to spread my religion.
- Open borders are needed for foreign trade routes (unless the "Open Trade" (or something similar) UN Resolution is passed.)
- They are useful for spreading Religions (and Corporations in BTS)
- They decrease Espionage costs (BTS)
Additionally, there are diplomatic implications because if you have Open Borders with the "Worst Enemy" of another AI they may ask you to stop trading with that nation; you then basically have to choose which one you'd like to make angry.
Generally I will have OB only with my allies who I want to keep friendly. I also will sign a "temporary" OB (i.e. one that I expect to cancel soon after the 10 turns are up) if I want to do something like throw a massive missionary assault at them to spread my religion.
Harry Potter52
Prince
If you want to be a peaceful fiend (i.e. nobody dare attack u due to your army size and you don't want to go through the bother of attacking anyone) then keep open borders with all.
It saved my economy in one game
I hadn't opened borders with my neighbour Hatsheput and I was running a negative economy at 70% research and just managing to keep up with the techs (prince level). Although i lost the game, opening borders with Hatty enabled me to reach 80%! (Figures, she was my only land neighbour so all the landlocked cities could trade only with her)
It saved my economy in one game
I hadn't opened borders with my neighbour Hatsheput and I was running a negative economy at 70% research and just managing to keep up with the techs (prince level). Although i lost the game, opening borders with Hatty enabled me to reach 80%! (Figures, she was my only land neighbour so all the landlocked cities could trade only with her)
You need to declare war through the diplomacy screen, or pressing ALT while clicking on their name, or cancel the Open Borders agreement. Either way your troops will be moved to the edge of the civ's nearest cultural boundary. So if you're thinking of a surprise attack, forget it. It doesn't happen in this game.
GodBen
Chieftain
You have to be careful who you open your borders to. When I was less experienced I used to sign the treaty with everybody and never understood why people declared war on me so much. Now it is much easier to keep the peace and go to war at a time of my choosing.
Don't open borders with everybody. Doing this will just result in everybody demanding that you stop trading/close borders with their enemies and you'll be getting dinged with negative diplo modifiers left and right regardless of what you do and soon find yourself embroiled in a war you might not want.
Don't open borders if you haven't finished backfilling! If you've managed to block off some land with border cities that you plan on coming back and settling, do no open borders with the AI. You can almost guarantee if you do they'll slip settlers in and start building cities in the land you were going to claim.
But if your trying to build a strong relationship with a couple civs and plan on keeping them friendly for the entire game, open borders can help quite abit and are a good idea.
I also tend to open borders with my vassals (who have capitulated) when they ask.
Don't open borders if you haven't finished backfilling! If you've managed to block off some land with border cities that you plan on coming back and settling, do no open borders with the AI. You can almost guarantee if you do they'll slip settlers in and start building cities in the land you were going to claim.
But if your trying to build a strong relationship with a couple civs and plan on keeping them friendly for the entire game, open borders can help quite abit and are a good idea.
I also tend to open borders with my vassals (who have capitulated) when they ask.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
I am sure you all have had CIV situations where you go /facepalm because of weird AI behavior about Open Borders.
Here's a list of my favs, sorted for idiocy:
#5 OB idiocy:
Toku, as usual, refuses OB. Two turns before I win a time victory he comes running and ask for OB. Interestingly, we are both land-locked civs on separate continents, which in the scenario I played are separated by an impassable mountain range from pole to pole.
#4 OB idiocy:
Hatty and I have a pretty involved border fight - her extreme culture is threatening my only copper and ivory, so I am building culture to counter her. Resulting dislike is enormous. Perhaps I should also mention that she thought herself strong and made demands (which I refused), attacked, got smashed, got counter-DoWed, etc. So the mood is BAAAAAD! Me hate her, she hate me - I think we were at -12 or so. Beyond her is Monty, then Toku and Bizzy. All three declare war on me, and since I can't get at them (me sea routes are also blocked by Egypt!) I can only sit and wait for their attacks. Then, suddenly, Hatty pops up and asks for OB! I am her worst enemy, and she hands me my saving grace on a silver platter! :doh!:
#3 OB idiocy:
I have been aiding my friend Bizzy in his war against Cathy. To get to the front my units must pass his territory. He cancels OB.
Ten turns later he lost 4 of his 6 cities and came running to me as a willing vassal!
#2 OB idiocy:
I slaughter the Maya. My SOD takes razes five (jungle) cities and gets so close to the capital, with Pyramids in it, and OOPS! I missed a galley! There's now two chariots ready to attack my capital that has a lone axe in it.
I sue for peace and get it, but my stack is teleported to a little peninsular on the other side of the Maya. Now, they have an ally, Monty, and he is on my other side. Fighting hard, really not giving ground and always dangerous with his woodsman II jags. So I need my SOD, and I need it home.
Two turns after peace I get OB from Pacal!
and the #1 idiocy with regards to Open Borders:
Justy and Monty have been having a go at each other for ages. They started fighting at about 1500BC and are still at it in 400 AD. Axes, archers, Jags, you name it. Why neither side has macemen, or at least catapults - well, war's bad for the economy (hear that, Dubya?). I sat by and watched, but then the pesky English attacked me, as did Toku, so I took their countries over. And now, suddenly, there is my territory in between the two warring maniacs. Justy has no problem, he took OB right when I discovered writing. Monty, on the other hand..... So ha has that Jag caught in neutral lands enclosed by my borders, who is constantly running the gauntlet of passing Byz stacks. And he get clobbered at home, because he builds attackers like crazy but must defend only. I deal with him a lot, techs, res, gpt. But he will not accept OB. Oh well, your problem!
After about 30 more turns of this, HE DECLARES WAR!!!!!!!! I sit back and watch - level 7 maces and pikes, backed by Knights, can deal with anything he has. And all he does is march his Jag home! Once the guy is in Monty's borders, he is willing to take peace for peace
He risks a war against a civ that has 3000 points to his 459, has maces and knights to his ancient era units -
just so that he can get 1 unit home without giving me OB!
Now tell us your fav AI OB moron moments!
Here's a list of my favs, sorted for idiocy:
#5 OB idiocy:
Toku, as usual, refuses OB. Two turns before I win a time victory he comes running and ask for OB. Interestingly, we are both land-locked civs on separate continents, which in the scenario I played are separated by an impassable mountain range from pole to pole.
#4 OB idiocy:
Hatty and I have a pretty involved border fight - her extreme culture is threatening my only copper and ivory, so I am building culture to counter her. Resulting dislike is enormous. Perhaps I should also mention that she thought herself strong and made demands (which I refused), attacked, got smashed, got counter-DoWed, etc. So the mood is BAAAAAD! Me hate her, she hate me - I think we were at -12 or so. Beyond her is Monty, then Toku and Bizzy. All three declare war on me, and since I can't get at them (me sea routes are also blocked by Egypt!) I can only sit and wait for their attacks. Then, suddenly, Hatty pops up and asks for OB! I am her worst enemy, and she hands me my saving grace on a silver platter! :doh!:
#3 OB idiocy:
I have been aiding my friend Bizzy in his war against Cathy. To get to the front my units must pass his territory. He cancels OB.
Ten turns later he lost 4 of his 6 cities and came running to me as a willing vassal!#2 OB idiocy:
I slaughter the Maya. My SOD takes razes five (jungle) cities and gets so close to the capital, with Pyramids in it, and OOPS! I missed a galley! There's now two chariots ready to attack my capital that has a lone axe in it.
I sue for peace and get it, but my stack is teleported to a little peninsular on the other side of the Maya. Now, they have an ally, Monty, and he is on my other side. Fighting hard, really not giving ground and always dangerous with his woodsman II jags. So I need my SOD, and I need it home.
Two turns after peace I get OB from Pacal!
and the #1 idiocy with regards to Open Borders:
Justy and Monty have been having a go at each other for ages. They started fighting at about 1500BC and are still at it in 400 AD. Axes, archers, Jags, you name it. Why neither side has macemen, or at least catapults - well, war's bad for the economy (hear that, Dubya?). I sat by and watched, but then the pesky English attacked me, as did Toku, so I took their countries over. And now, suddenly, there is my territory in between the two warring maniacs. Justy has no problem, he took OB right when I discovered writing. Monty, on the other hand..... So ha has that Jag caught in neutral lands enclosed by my borders, who is constantly running the gauntlet of passing Byz stacks. And he get clobbered at home, because he builds attackers like crazy but must defend only. I deal with him a lot, techs, res, gpt. But he will not accept OB. Oh well, your problem!
After about 30 more turns of this, HE DECLARES WAR!!!!!!!! I sit back and watch - level 7 maces and pikes, backed by Knights, can deal with anything he has. And all he does is march his Jag home! Once the guy is in Monty's borders, he is willing to take peace for peace
He risks a war against a civ that has 3000 points to his 459, has maces and knights to his ancient era units - just so that he can get 1 unit home without giving me OB!
Now tell us your fav AI OB moron moments!
Harry Potter52
Prince
Oh man.. that's one really stupid method
Your ranking is perfect, #1 was much to idiotical...
Your ranking is perfect, #1 was much to idiotical...
Simple Simon
Simpleton
yeah, I really couldn't believe that one!
What made it even better: I reloaded, and instead of sitting back I really really trounced him. Guess what: it took LONGER for him to be willing to talk even peace! Initially, he wanted a city from me
I am sure you all have had CIV situations where you go /facepalm because of weird AI behavior about Open Borders.
Here's a list of my favs, sorted for idiocy:
#5 OB idiocy:
Toku, as usual, refuses OB. Two turns before I win a time victory he comes running and ask for OB. Interestingly, we are both land-locked civs on separate continents, which in the scenario I played are separated by an impassable mountain range from pole to pole.
#4 OB idiocy:
Hatty and I have a pretty involved border fight - her extreme culture is threatening my only copper and ivory, so I am building culture to counter her. Resulting dislike is enormous. Perhaps I should also mention that she thought herself strong and made demands (which I refused), attacked, got smashed, got counter-DoWed, etc. So the mood is BAAAAAD! Me hate her, she hate me - I think we were at -12 or so. Beyond her is Monty, then Toku and Bizzy. All three declare war on me, and since I can't get at them (me sea routes are also blocked by Egypt!) I can only sit and wait for their attacks. Then, suddenly, Hatty pops up and asks for OB! I am her worst enemy, and she hands me my saving grace on a silver platter! :doh!:
#3 OB idiocy:
I have been aiding my friend Bizzy in his war against Cathy. To get to the front my units must pass his territory. He cancels OB.
#2 OB idiocy:
I slaughter the Maya. My SOD takes razes five (jungle) cities and gets so close to the capital, with Pyramids in it, and OOPS! I missed a galley! There's now two chariots ready to attack my capital that has a lone axe in it.
I sue for peace and get it, but my stack is teleported to a little peninsular on the other side of the Maya. Now, they have an ally, Monty, and he is on my other side. Fighting hard, really not giving ground and always dangerous with his woodsman II jags. So I need my SOD, and I need it home.
Two turns after peace I get OB from Pacal!
and the #1 idiocy with regards to Open Borders:
Justy and Monty have been having a go at each other for ages. They started fighting at about 1500BC and are still at it in 400 AD. Axes, archers, Jags, you name it. Why neither side has macemen, or at least catapults - well, war's bad for the economy (hear that, Dubya?). I sat by and watched, but then the pesky English attacked me, as did Toku, so I took their countries over. And now, suddenly, there is my territory in between the two warring maniacs. Justy has no problem, he took OB right when I discovered writing. Monty, on the other hand..... So ha has that Jag caught in neutral lands enclosed by my borders, who is constantly running the gauntlet of passing Byz stacks. And he get clobbered at home, because he builds attackers like crazy but must defend only. I deal with him a lot, techs, res, gpt. But he will not accept OB. Oh well, your problem!
After about 30 more turns of this, HE DECLARES WAR!!!!!!!! I sit back and watch - level 7 maces and pikes, backed by Knights, can deal with anything he has. And all he does is march his Jag home! Once the guy is in Monty's borders, he is willing to take peace for peace
just so that he can get 1 unit home without giving me OB!
Now tell us your fav AI OB moron moments!
Wow, number one is just rediculous, lol.
Mosher
Mushroom dad
Sos I was playing RFC, I was Spain... Germany is friendly towards me with no negative marks. And he refuses OB because "I am his worst enemy."
Sincro
Thou hast no Cu, again...
Thread necromancy aside, I was under the impression that in BTS the AI will not walk settlers through your culture to settle new areas. They will sail through your culture, but I have never seen them walk through it.
Comments or discussion?
-Sinc
Comments or discussion?
-Sinc
The7Sins
Hungry Burger
I've seen it happen a few times though it is quite rare. The most recent was I was playing on one of the Earth maps and had everyone starting @ or damn near there IRL starts. Charlemagne had the worst possible area being boxed in by me (Alex), Bis, De Gaulle, and Augustus. (in fact all of Europe was one giant cluster of civs) Well he marched 2 Settlers @ 2 different time across my borders. The first got eaten by a Bear but the 2nd settled his third city in extreme east Asia. He had to march across mine, Cyrus, and Genghis' territories but he finally settled that Settler for his third city.
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