Open Role Play Challenge: Atlantis!

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

No thanks to mad, I've managed to change my saved game to a full Marathon timed game, won't run out at 1000 AD. I had to first save as world builder file, then move saved game to public maps, exit to main menu, open up as a senaro, Then save over original file.

Mad, just changing the saved file would have been easier.

Oh yeah, I covered the mini map, and centered over ocean, so as not to spoil my game, but i know who's there and what happens so no biggie, just untagged resources and focused over ocean so not to spoil unrevealed resources.

 

[The Almighty dF]

And I won, yay. Noble-Marathon, cultural victory.

Spoiler :

 

[JTMacc99]

Mikehendi: You asked for comments on your game, so here's one. (Given that you won in much more earlier and convincing fashion than I did, take this for what it is worth.) You probably could have waited until you were done with combustion before you shut down the research. It would have given you the two very important things.

Spoiler :

First, steel ships were a massive advantage Atlantis had over the rest of the world. Second, it would have allowed you to build railroads. (At least, I think that's true.)

 

[dalamb]

@JTMacc99:

Spoiler :

Railroads are a prereq for combustion -- but those destroyers sure are nice!

 

[Mikehendi]

Mikehendi: You asked for comments on your game, so here's one. (Given that you won in much more earlier and convincing fashion than I did, take this for what it is worth.) You probably could have waited until you were done with combustion before you shut down the research. It would have given you the two very important things.

Spoiler :

First, steel ships were a massive advantage Atlantis had over the rest of the world. Second, it would have allowed you to build railroads. (At least, I think that's true.)

Spoiler :

I believe Combustion doesn't reveal oil, don't you need scientific method for that? (I'm not sure). And all ships more advanced then a Caravel require Astronomy, a tech I avoided because it obsoletes the colossus (and thus a big chunk of my commerce). And, I don't even want to think about all the stuff that becomes obsolete with scientific method... it gives me the creeps

Railroads would've been very nice, since my 1-move units couldn't walk from city to city in one turn, leaving CG3 infantry and Cannons out in the open field. I was hoping for coal to build railroads.

 

[dalamb]

@Mikehendi,JTMacc99:

Spoiler :

Oil is revealed by Scientific Method, which requires Printing Press and either Chemistry or Astronomy. If I decide being invaded is a problem, which it probably is because my 2nd commerce city is so far behind, I'm thinking of continuing after Lib/Nat with

• Gunpowder (musketman defenders)
• Chemistry (frigates; needs me to backfill Construction > Engineering)
• Printing Press (+1 commerce for towns and villages)
• Feudalism > Guilds (both just prerequisites)
• Banking (mercantilism and banks, for when I'm running 100% gold to alternate with 100% culture or science)
• Replaceable Parts (maybe some lumber mills)
• Steam (coal, levees)
• Steel (cannons, drydocks for tougher navy)
• Railroad (faster continental defending army movement, better production, maybe machine guns)
• Sci Meth (oil)
• Combustion (oil wells, destroyers)

But that's a heck of a lot more techs than jesusin would go for!

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

You don't need Astronomy for Destroyers/Transports. Just get Scientific Method with Chemistry and head for Combustion.

 

[JTMacc99]

Scientific Method reveals oil, but you can't use it (for anything) until you have combustion. Uranium works the same way. You can see it and mine it after you get Physics, but you can't use it until you have Fission. So, if you find yourself without oil after you get combustion, but have mined uranium, you still won't be able to build destroyers until you discover Fission.

and for dalamb on that tech order:

Spoiler :

Very similar to what I did, with a gigantic difference. I stopped one short of liberalism, traded for gunpowder, researched chemistry and then took steel. This is pretty much the move that saved Atlanta's ass.

At this point, I could build a couple dry docks and then crank out a large number of privateers. It was the privateers that were able to destroy the Zulu navy while it was on its way to destroy me. It was MUCH easier to kill then all at sea than it was to build enough ground units to repel the attack. Much easier. Plus, it is what the people of Atlanta wanted, no troops on their soil.

 

[dalamb]

I thought I posted a reply to JTMacc99 already, but it didn't appear, so:

What level are you playing at? Was it mentioned in that deleted post? I suspect it's higher than Noble, so maybe...

Spoiler :

I might not have such a bad invasion as you suffered, so maybe I can make do with frigates (coastal) until destroyers (oceanic) are available. I'd hoped to avoid Astronomy to keep monuments and the Colossos going.

 

[JTMacc99]

I thought I posted a reply to JTMacc99 already, but it didn't appear, so:

What level are you playing at? Was it mentioned in that deleted post? I suspect it's higher than Noble, so maybe...

Spoiler :

I might not have such a bad invasion as you suffered, so maybe I can make do with frigates (coastal) until destroyers (oceanic) are available. I'd hoped to avoid Astronomy to keep monuments and the Colossos going.

Monarch, which is the level I personally started to notice unreasonably large AI stacks from civs like the Aztecs and the Zulus.

Spoiler :

Frigates will certainly help, but in my game, Shaka's initial fleets were made up of 7-8 caravels and 7-8 galleons. He had Military Tradition and Rifles before he had Astronomy, so I am fairly certain that his galleons were loaded up with cuirassiers, cavalry, and various siege and ground troops.

My point is, I would have needed 15 frigates all in the right spot in order to keep those nasty troops from landing if I was attempting to destroy them once they reached Atlanta. It was a lot easier to use stacks of 4-6 privateers to sink all those suckers on their way, especially since they don't get any defensive bonus in the open ocean. As a bonus, it didn't take very long at all to earn my first (and even my second) great general from the Privateers.

Like I said, I completely forgot about the colossus as a good thing to have in my game. I can see why you don't want to give it up. Hopefully you've got a lot of cottaged tiles to work by the time you stop working the coast tiles so heavily.

 

[Mikehendi]

I also played at monarch.

Spoiler :

In retrospect I think I should've teched astronomy. I could (barely, at first) handle shaka on my lands, but I was defenseless at sea. So my seafood got pillaged, losing 4 health/city and the food from those recources, but the really nasty part was that he blockaded me.

I always thought blockading only stopped the trade routes, but when he did it, I couldn't work a single sea tile in a 3-4 tile radius from the blockading ships!

Sure, the extra commerce from colossus was nice, but I was really dependant on the food from the sea tiles. I was suddenly seeing my cities starving at -14 food/turn or so! Ouch!

Also:

Spoiler :

Right now, I'm replaying the same map (I really liked this RPC), but now I'm aiming for space! I was miles away in tech when I met everyone, but Shaka slowly vassaled EVERY OTHER CIV, and with those increasingly crazy AI era bonusses, he's overtaking me in tech! So I declared on him (and everyone else...), having enough destroyers to make sure he doesn't land troops, and O BOY I'M BLOCKADING ALL OF HIS COASTAL CITIES MUHAHAHAHA, I CAN SEE THEM STARVING, I'm sorry, it just feels GOOOOD! REVENGE!.

But Now he has teched flight and rocketry (uh oh) (and completed apollo program, even more uh oh) (I'm teching computers now for internet), and I have absolutely zero experience with modern age warfare.

Any Pointers how I can defend myself from planes/airlifted units and ways of attacking that I might not even know about?

 

[JTMacc99]

I also played at monarch.

Spoiler :

In retrospect I think I should've teched astronomy. I could (barely, at first) handle shaka on my lands, but I was defenseless at sea. So my seafood got pillaged, losing 4 health/city and the food from those recources, but the really nasty part was that he blockaded me.

I always thought blockading only stopped the trade routes, but when he did it, I couldn't work a single sea tile in a 3-4 tile radius from the blockading ships!

Sure, the extra commerce from colossus was nice, but I was really dependant on the food from the sea tiles. I was suddenly seeing my cities starving at -14 food/turn or so! Ouch!

Also:

Spoiler :

Right now, I'm replaying the same map (I really liked this RPC), but now I'm aiming for space! I was miles away in tech when I met everyone, but Shaka slowly vassaled EVERY OTHER CIV, and with those increasingly crazy AI era bonusses, he's overtaking me in tech! So I declared on him (and everyone else...), having enough destroyers to make sure he doesn't land troops, and O BOY I'M BLOCKADING ALL OF HIS COASTAL CITIES MUHAHAHAHA, I CAN SEE THEM STARVING, I'm sorry, it just feels GOOOOD! REVENGE!.

But Now he has teched flight and rocketry (uh oh) (and completed apollo program, even more uh oh) (I'm teching computers now for internet), and I have absolutely zero experience with modern age warfare.

Any Pointers how I can defend myself from planes/airlifted units and ways of attacking that I might not even know about?

Spoiler :

Hmm... if he doesn't have oil, can he build aircraft other than airships? If you're going for space, and at the same time need to disrupt Shaka, I guess aircraft carriers with fighter cover can protect your ships, although a combination of destroyers and battleships should allow you to continue effectively blockading him. Also effective, you can load up subs with missiles and destroy any of his resource tiles in range. Keep that up long enough, and you might be able to slow him down. Blowing up rice farms and iron mines seems to be kind of boring, but it will help a lot with slowing down his Space race progress.

He can't airlift anything into your cities, but he could certainly send them over to nearby Spain for the short trip to Atlantis if she's his vassal.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Tale of Atlantis ​

I've played in a bit of a rush, not copious notes.

Spoiler :

I teched to civil service, but held off on a civics switch till I could whip or lose the race to the Hanging Gardens, I also built 2 settlers in anticipation of getting it, which I did with a whip for 4 pop, the same was done for the Great Library, 6 pop whip. Then a switch to caste system/Bureaucracy.


I popped out a Great Engineer at 20% odds from Science Central, currently holding over for probably mining corp. received the Great Artist from Music and the GG's have been popping out now as well.


Current research path is, Monotheism, Monarchy, Machinery, then paper/Education. Apostolic palace was built as a Buddhist structure, Meh. Settled Great people so far are 1 Profit +5, 1 Merchant+6 and 1 Artist+3, All settled into Capital city, my only cottage city, for the gold generated. That's a total, with Wall street of 42


Currently building the Statue of Zeus, Sistine Chapel, for failure cash, decided to forgo the Shwedagon Pagoda, as I can't bulb Astronomy with Meditation.


790 AD I alway's seem to lose track of time in the dark ages, anyway, lost out on the Mausoleum of Massalos, and the Hagia Sofia was built the same time as well, did a double switch to Organized religion and Hereditary rule. Research path is Iron working, Machinery, paper, education.


925 AD I've popped out Copper by Uruk, that will help out greatly in the space race, and it would seem I have Iron as well. GG's born so far total 7, it seemed like more, as they were popping out in groups of 2 more or less.


1095 AD I've just researched Engineering, for the Castles, +1 trade routes baby, and I got the best defense Quest straight away. Well, I was going to build Castles all over anyway, so gravy baby, gravy!!! I'm also aiming to build the Notre Dame, for the +2 happy.


1120 AD or so, the Chichen Itza was FINALLY BUILT. I nearly built it twice over for the failure cash, 1400 and 1300 respectively. I was going to have to start in a 3rd city. I birthed a Great Merchant in Uruk, who's been settled into Capital city, that's 60 Gold now from Settled specialists, post wall street, 25 gold now.


1200 AD I meet the first 2 of our neighbours;

Spoiler :

And his Overlord

Spoiler :

Seem to have paper on them at least, nearly finished Education.


I've completed the best defense Quest, I took the +3 from all leaders, though Isobela, has a -3 for 'heathen' Religion. Oh well.


1235 AD Education's in, all cities build Universities, unless they need a library or are building a required wonder. I can only really trade paper, and I'm loathe to do that, and put her, Isobela, on the liberalism beeline. I still haven't gotten Philosophy as yet. Actually she's just researched paper herself.


1300 AD I've now completed in the last 2 turns, the Universtiy of Sankore and Notre Dame, I now swtich to Paganism, to remove the -3 heathen religion. I've also made a traded for Feudalism with Isobela for Music and Optics, I have 2 Trireme's to upgrade and race about the world, thought Justinian has a head start, but he's a vassal.

Spoiler :

I buy Justinians map for 85 gold, and he's go vision into Shaka's lands, looks like our original starting position, mads messed up AGAIN!!!!


1330 AD I meet the next two;

Spoiler :

and the Vasssal, as if you didn't expect that,

Spoiler :

I attempt a map trade with Shaka, but as he want's Music with it, and I don't want Calvary storming my island I refuse. He'll get over it, I'm nearly going to gain Circumnavigation bonus anyway, Justinian only has 3 cities, 1 on coast only, and I bought his map, so I know i'm infront of him and Isobela.


I make a trade for guilds with Khan, for Aesthetics, only 3 turns left, but didn't want to give up code of laws, should have traded, and Aesthetics for banking..oh well, too late.

Spoiler :

I recived the Circumnavigation bonus, just as my caravel, was blockaded in by ice in the south, as the Northern one had already been blockaded in. I now just explore the coast, meet the rest, and Saladin Offically.


1368 AD I was badly beaten to Liberalism by Isobela, I just messed about too much, but she researched both Education and Liberalism very Quickly. Must have received Educaion off her vassal, and straight to liberalism, where she took Astronomy. She's pleased with me, but I still have -4 pagan religion in Paganism??, Ms 10% could come after me, as I only have warriors.


1394 AD I offically meet Saladin, and I only have 5 rivals left, who's gone, I missed it completely, looks like Shaka's got 2/3's of his continent. I'm in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

Spoiler :

and so ends Check point 2

 

[Mikehendi]

Spoiler :

Hmm... if he doesn't have oil, can he build aircraft other than airships? If you're going for space, and at the same time need to disrupt Shaka, I guess aircraft carriers with fighter cover can protect your ships, although a combination of destroyers and battleships should allow you to continue effectively blockading him. Also effective, you can load up subs with missiles and destroy any of his resource tiles in range. Keep that up long enough, and you might be able to slow him down. Blowing up rice farms and iron mines seems to be kind of boring, but it will help a lot with slowing down his Space race progress.

He can't airlift anything into your cities, but he could certainly send them over to nearby Spain for the short trip to Atlantis if she's his vassal.

Spoiler :

I've made peace with shaka, paying him some 300 gold or so. War weariness + Emancipation unhappiness was just too much. I've got the culture slider @20% now (with theaters, colosseums and broadcast towers with all 3 hit somethings), I don't want to take it any higher.

I've built the internet (which gave me flight, artillery and rocketry, and just completed apollo program, built the 3 gorges dam and teched genetics (My Ironworks city is GREAT, I've been lucky enough to pop coal for another +50%.)

I think boats can keep shaka off my island, I've got a lot of destroyers busting the fog aout 15-20 tiles around. My only concern is the UN. I didn't built it, because Shaka, who has vassaled everyone, will probably win diplomatic!

I've got 3 GP ready for a GA, and then 2 in reserve, + 1 Gscientist from fusion (2 people are teching fission now, KA-CHING) + 1 GM @ 65% odds will allow for a 2nd GA.

I think I can keep the tech advantage easily now, and I've got enough production. My only concern is someone teching mass media and building the UN.

 

[Yenish]

Spoiler :

Just played it twice. Emperor level.
I read the spoil, so I knew what I wanted to do.
First in normal, second in epic.
First try, lost the space race to chaka, he launched 2 turns before me, and with both engines.

Second try was a space win, (time loss due to settings though, problem with epic speed).
I built 7 cities only. Important focus at the beggining was to get to get theology with the oracle, and build the apostolic palace. I missed a state religion in my first try. Here, I was everyone worst ennemy for long, and that was fine
Second important thing was to get monarchy asap. With lots of warriors and the good food resources, the cities grow big fast. Cottage everywhere, and the tech lead is taken.
Third focus : liberalism, and take democracy with it to push the cottages to their max.
Theatre to help with the unhapiness when going out of hereditary rule. Switch with the taj.
Then I focused to the naval techs. Privateers were not that usefull at first, Chaka got frigates too early. He was the major threat. And he got the circum bonus too.
Focus to get destroyer. Got them one turn to late and chaka managed to unload 3 galleons. But machineguns hold them fine. Upgrade the privateers, and then rule the seas.
First line of destroyers blockade the coastal cities, second line watch for ships trying to go out. It is not possible to loose military from that point.I had a war with toku too, no issue.
I kept the war with chaka going on to slow him down.
I declared to isabella because chaka's ships where protected in her territory and could unload before I could sunk them. She quickly capitulates. Cool.

From here on, I got the hapiness wonders to decrease the culture slider, and an easy win. Chaka was busy with toku this time till the end.

 

[Mikehendi]

I replayed this scenario, this time aiming for space. I don't finish much games, around 1300-1500 AD my laptop becomes really slow. SO while I'm very familiar with the early tech tree and beelines, I don't really know the important beelines in the 2nd half. Also, I don't have a clue how all those fancy modern era units work. I've never even tried paradrops, stealth, planes, nukes, damn, even just regular boats. So that will also be new.

So, here we go again, on Monarch, Normal speed, until 1 AD.

Spoiler :

I settle in place, start on a worker, and:

So I switch to a fishing boat. Grow to size 2, then worker.

Then I get 2 good events, on consecutive turns!

I build two more workboats and a worker to start improving the gold, pigs and clams for my second city, then grow to size 6 and 3 pop whip a settler

Techpath was fishing from hut-mining-BW (forests and slavery)-pottery(granaries for efficient whips)-AH-mysticism-polytheism(instead of meditation for Glibrary)-priesthood

I aggresively pursued getting a 10 XP unit. Last time, the whole island was fogbusted in no time, (creative doesn't help here), so I had no more barbs to slay. I attack a lion, getting me to 3XP, then I attack a barbarian warrior at 50% odds... And won! Getting him up to 8 XP.

Teched writing and sailing while building:

Took metal casting, and teched COL. With gold, silver, forge, religion and temple I get 10 happyness, 11 in capital.

Wait... Whats that?

Come to Mama!

Didn't your mama ever tell you not to attack a woodsman 2 warrior, who's hidden in a forest, across a river?
Well, Heroic Epic is unlocked!

So, I quickly settle Kish 1 SW of my woodsman warrior. The Great Lighthouse gets BIDL in 650 BC, But I manage to build the Colossus again (350BC)

Not too bad! I found Lagash, my future Ironworks city in 225BC, leaving me with 4 good cities in:

LOL! I did it again! Christianity founded @ 1 AD. And AGAIN I forgot to rename my missionary to Jesus Christ...

Meanwhile, the capital is building the pyramids, since I'm in no hurry to expand beyond my 4 core cities

Techpath after COL was IW, math, masonry-mono (for org reg), aest (parthenon), theology.

I'm planning to build some 5XP Vultures with a free Shock promotion under theocracy, which I can then upgrade to 3-promotion macemen if neccesairy, that means I'll have to postpone Machinery-Guilds for a while, so no effective workshops yet.

I settled a Gprophet in the capital. I'll be settling All GP's for a while. No bulbing for trades is neccesairy now, so why not go for the long run advantages. Scientists in the capital (1 academy), ENgeneers and prophets in Lagash, and Merchants and artists in Eridu.

Some more shots @ 1AD:

Bureau Cap, science city:

GPfarm/Wealth city

Moai

Ironworks city

 

[JammerUno]

@Mikehendi:

Your ironworks site is far better suited as a bureau capital and your current capital is far better suited for the ironworks.

 

[UWHabs]

Finishing off my game.

Spoiler :

Not sure where I left off, but Izzy declared war on me at one point, but without astro, it was basically just a free Great General.

Then holed up, after a certain point, turned off my tech, since nobody would attack. Heck, I was even friendly with Shaka, and had a defensive past with him. Considering he owns 30% of the world, not bad. Probably if I didn't win culture, he'd be a threat for domination. So, on my winning turn, here we are. The lands:

And the victory conditions the turn before I won (after one artist bomb in each city, and one of the cities getting a second one. And a tiny bit of micromanaging just to get them all to go over on the same turn):

I do think settling 1S and grabbing the gold early was useful. I definitely should have just gone with 6 cities, since even if I built 9 temples in a couple of the religions, I still ran out of time to build all the cathedrals. And I didn't have the resources to build the missionaries to spread all 4 religions to all 9 cities. It's a nice map - I'm debating trying another game but going for space.

 

[Mikehendi]

Continued, Monarch, Normal speed, 1 AD - 1490 AD.

Spoiler :

So, after founding christianity, I keep on building wonders and infra for a while, not settling any of the 4 remaining cities. I'm planning on building the priest wonders, (+1hammer/priest, +2 gold/science/hammer per state religious building), running a religious economy. How to deal with Isabelle and her 7 (er... i mean 2) zealots while running a different religion, is a problem for later. Much later actually, as I'm probably delaying optics until I get discovered.


Techpath was Literature for the Glibrary, Civil service.

I got this event:

And get +100 culture instead...

Then meditation, philosophy, founding taoism and making GPfarm Eridu a double holy city!

Music got me a free Gartist,then paper, currency, education to start on universities

Feudalism and construction were next, preparing for my Spit-out-5xp-units race, in which I want to include Barrage 2 catapults. I didn't yet know whether to switch to theocracy or vassalage so I teched feudalism. Of course, it turned out that it was a no-brainer to go with theocracy, since I wouldn't be building much buildings at that time. Also, it's the favorite civic of 2/3 of the zealots!

Well, it's 1000 AD already!

I built the piramids in 75AD, revolting to Rep (Happy cap of 13-14!!!), parthenon (200), Apostelistic Palace (425), Glibrary (500). After these wonders, I expanded quickly to 8 cities, founding the last in 980 AD


Some shots:

Little Gilgamesh must be feeling real important, sitting in his big Apostolic Palace.
"I vote for myself". "Ok, I've won! Now, what resolution shall I propose... hmmm... wait... I am the King... I can do whatever the xxxx I want... JAAAAMES!!! Remind me why I built this thing again!"

I shouldn't have bragged about those 2 consecutive good events... sigh..

But that's a small price to pay for this:

Well, 1000 AD it was I said. I built Ankor Wat in 1030.

I might be meeting isabella soon, so with only 8 warriors as my whole militairy force, I can no longer postpone it. + I want guilds, for better workshops.

So I switch to theocracy, and start churning out 24 vultures and xx catapults from the capital, production city and moai city. The others just keep on whipping infra.

In 1070 I founded divine right so I now have 4 religions again. Good for the free religion civic later. Unfortunately the notre dame gets BIDL too.

then calender, compass, and then:

Taking nationalism. Since I postpone meeting everybody as long as possible, I don't know were I stand in the race, so I play it safe.

I complete the university of sankore in 1180.

Then Machinery-Guilds for better workshops
Banking-Economics gets me the free Gmerchant, and I start on Banks for Wall Street (I have my city plans ready, you'll see them in a screenshot on the end of this section)

Then I go Alphabet - Printing Press, and...

And I finally get out of theocracy anarchy-free, adopting Organized religion and mercantilism.

I already have at least 2 religions (except for confucianism, my state religion, they spread naturally,

Which will offset the happiness loss when i switch from rep to univ suffrage. (This turned out to be a mistake, I should've stayed in rep all game long. 20-25 specialists x 3 beakers x multipliers is too much to pass up on, and it is beakers I need, not production.

I built the spiral minnaret, completing my religious economy wonders, and tech constitution (1380) and democracy (1450 AD), for 21 esp points in all cities without slider. Last game, I couldn't even see anyone's demographics. This game, it shall be different!

I'm now prepared to meet the world: Espionage and 5 units/city. I'm collecting gold now, for upgrading my vultures to macemen, while oxford is being built.

And someone heard me thinking, I guess. In 1490 AD:

pic 374

Contact! And I'm MILES ahead in tech! I first thought she had optics, but apparently it was only a border pop in that one lonely ocean tile.

Nice point for a break!

Empire with city plans:

Compared to my culture game:

Spoiler :

My 8 Cities:

Spoiler :

And apparantly I forgot one.

Civics

Units: 1 warrior, 3 soon-to-be macemen and 1 catapult/city
2 Gartists are saved for golden ages for major civic switching and such

Techs

Spoiler :

Info

The rest of this story will probably have to wait a day or 2, unless I don't feel like sleeping later this evening. I'm also very happy the way this game is going.

 

[Mikehendi]

@Mikehendi:

Your ironworks site is far better suited as a bureau capital and your current capital is far better suited for the ironworks.

You're probably right, but by the time I founded Lagash, My capital already had many far developped cottages (thanks to the hight happy cap, and almost no whipping in this city), so I kept em this way.

It probably was more efficient to cottage my current ironworks city, and then when those cottages were mature, switch Uruk to workshops. I hadn't thought of that in game. I almost never move my capital, I don't know why.