Optimal city number (noble diff)

[Prometeo]

Hi all,
i've got some questions about cities, at standard game difficulty. First of all, at the beginning i usually build a worker in order to increase my production of settlers.
But I don't know HOW MANY cities found.
Let's explain better... if I found a lot of cities my capitol will never grow up, furthermore new cities will cost a lot of money in terms of manteinance.
So: lot of cities, in the ancient era --> High opportunity cost, high manteinance costs

BUT

If i'm patient and lucky I should produce many workers and try to maximize every city square. I suppose that if i increase every single box with farms or cottages every city will be more productive. Then I could build house of justice (forgive me if I've transalated in a wrong way) and half the cost of manteinance. Well... if I enter in classical age (or medieval) with many uprgaded cities i could aspire to became the richest and the most advanced civ in the world.

So my question is: it's really so useless to build many cities? And it's so useless if I'm going to build a big empire?
What civ could help my tactics and what do you suggest to optimize this way to achieve victory?

thanks

 

[yoshi74]

So my question is: it's really so useless to build many cities? And it's so useless if I'm going to build a big empire?

No, its not useless. Expansion is still a very valid way to win, even rapid expansion. Being big means you have a lot of land (and therefore many resources which allow you cities to get bigger), and lot of cities to make units.
Dropping in science budget lower isnt really such a big problem since at the time you can build markets and courthouses the finances will get better again. It needs some experience to get a feeling for the right pace of expansion (still working on it by myself).

So whats helpfull for expansion? On civ traits both organized (halfs civic maintaince, which depends on empire size) and financial (+1 gold on any field already producing 2; play a fin civ at a islands game or with many cottages, quite a lot of extra money).

Religios isn't bad eighter. While it produces no money or saves some by itself, it increases you're chances to get more religions. Found some and get some great prophets to build shrines and then spread them around the board an see the money flooding in. Note that shrine income does not goes into research, so even at science 100% its goes into youre treasury, which means that a holy city could make exellent use of banks and markets, while no other city really needs them (because all money goes to the egg-heads ).
Founding two or three religions in your capital right from the start, get market, grocer and bank and this city alone could pay the upkeep for a lot of cities.

Just keep in mind that you need the military strength to defend you growing empire. Nothing more annoying to be happy about your fast growing empire and then some turns later see it taken over by your neighbor, who build swords instead of settlers and workers.

 

[UKScud]

No, its not useless. Expansion is still a very valid way to win, even rapid expansion. Being big means you have a lot of land (and therefore many resources which allow you cities to get bigger), and lot of cities to make units.
Dropping in science budget lower isnt really such a big problem since at the time you can build markets and courthouses the finances will get better again. It needs some experience to get a feeling for the right pace of expansion (still working on it by myself).

I think pace is definately the trick. I've only played one game through to completion so far (who said Civ4 was faster?) but I won because there was a steady expansion and each time I started to incur penalties for maintenance I focussed on the economy for a while.

I think the later techs, banking, grocers, market etc, definately help. Whats the earliest anyone has won a victory on noble at the moment?

 

[Dairuka]

Pace yourself. Spreading like a virus only means you'll fade out like a virus.

I follow a rule of the thumb now for simple expansion.

Ancient Era - 3 cities.
Classical Era - 5 cities.

From there, it doesn't really matter how you expand, or how big you expand, as banks, courthouses and marketplaces are more than enough to keep you at least 70% research funded at all times.

 

[WetWarev7]

My general rule of thumb is, not to let my expansion out grow my military. In the early game, I found one city for every military unit. After the first few cities, I scale back to one city for every two units. When there is no more land in the immediate area, I just build the military units, and go and take cities from the AI until I have control of all nearby strategic positions.

 

[petey]

I think for the first couple of cities, you should keep it close to the vest and not send out settlers until they have protection. You can get away with not doing this on the lower levels, but if you're planning on moving to the more difficult ones, it's probably best to not develop strategies that will just kill you off in later games when the opponents are tougher.

After that, it depends on the situation. If you find there's a penninsula near you with no one else in it, you can keep a scout or a warrior up there to hold of the fog so no barbarians come out and send out a couple of quick settlers to take the territory and then build their own defenses before anyone else gets there. If there's a nearby AI that's taken some key resources or founded a holy city, focus on military and let him do the work of creating the cities and working the resources and then just take them from him.

 

[fightcancer]

Optimal City Number is 9, IMO. See the breakdown here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

 

[Zhahz]

Optimal City Number is 9, IMO. See the breakdown here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

Yeah, make a totally artificial civ with rings of perfectly placed cities - it's natural and fun. Be sure to name your cities after your favorite flavors of cheese too.

 

[fightcancer]

Yeah, make a totally artificial civ with rings of perfectly placed cities - it's natural and fun. Be sure to name your cities after your favorite flavors of cheese too.

good one....

 

[mrlaze]

Optimal City Number is 9, IMO. See the breakdown here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

Thats pretty close to what I do, but I tend to hold 2 open squares, on the diagnal. I would push the cities at "3, 6, 9 & 12" one square away from the capitol. I also tend to build larger countries than just 9 cities. Also I have not been very successful at civ4 so far(playing the one right below Noble till I get the hang then I will start moving up, played Regent on Civ3 and it worked fine.)

 

[dh_epic]

I find the best way to know how many cities to build is to look at my tax rate. At 80 or 90, I can still build more cities. At 70, I should only build at the best locations. At 60 or 50, I need to slow down and consolidate the cities I do have.

The end result is I usually end up with anywhere between 2 and 5 cities by the classical era... and I get additional cities later depending on how quickly I get to astronomy, or find other so-so locations with good resources, or make good opportunities for conquest.