Optimal strategies for fastest finish times in Civ6

IronfighterXXX

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I'm in minority of players who like to play 'optimally', without fooling around, roleplaying, etc.

Probably after few first 'test' games I will start to play in this way, so my question:

With one week to release, do anyone have any thoughts for possible optimal strategies for fastest finish times in Civ6?

I almost haven't watched any yt videos, or read previews, so right now I have only this thoughts:

- better have more cities than in Civ5
- ranged units still seem to be OP, so domination on Pangea with CBs and XBs

Any thoughts?
 
I think a religious rush with Russia getting stonehenge early might also be a pretty quick victory on a pangea map, converting nations before other religions can oppose you, but that's just speculation on my part.
 
Not interesting in fastest finish times. I`ll rather play on a higher difficulty however possible.

Maybe pick a science civ and get those science districts up in every city.
 
All the lets play have being exclusively on Prince difficulty, so we wont even know the optimal strategy until at least a few weeks after the launch imo
 
Imho districts don't matter much for a huge part of the game. Its all about early game and they are a waste to build when you can build settlers, builders and military instead. Districts really start to matter once you reach medieval era and get lumber mills plus industrial district.
Fast aggressive games I want to try:

Germany Scout rush:
produce roughly 6 scouts and 3 slingers (may vary due to map)
buy builders with gold from early scouting and barbs
attack city states that you don't get the bonus envoy for with scouts and slingers/archers conquer one to get a fast second city (scouts are combat strength 17 instead of 10 plus double XP)
farm scout XP on city states with double XP policy for third promotion (+20 combat strength) then kill everyone
beeline Hansa district for production and overwhelm everyone with units due to superior production

Rome default wide game:
nothing special here just spamming of densely placed cities plus some legions

Aztec rush:
Mix of Eagle warriors and Archers.
Use city states you don't like for farming builders


Religious victory might be the fastest but it is probably still much faster if you combine it with military like exterminate half of the civs (your home continent) and convert the other half.

In all three games go for an enemy capital that just built a holy site district and conquer that so you don't have to build it yourself.
 
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Germany Scout rush:
produce roughly 6 scouts and 3 slingers (may vary due to map)
buy builders with gold from early scouting and barbs
attack city states that you don't get the bonus envoy for with scouts and slingers/archers conquer one to get a fast second city (scouts are combat strength 17 instead of 10 plus double XP)
farm scout XP on city states with double XP policy for third promotion (+20 combat strength) then kill everyone
beeline Hansa district for production and overwhelm everyone with units due to superior production
[...]
Religious victory might be the fastest but it is probably still much faster if you combine it with military like exterminate half of the civs (your home continent) and convert the other half.

In all three games go for an enemy capital that just built a holy site district and conquer that so you don't have to build it yourself.

Love the brutality of your strategy. Only concern is that if I understood well scouts get xp from exploration, not combat. So maybe it's better to build a mix of scouts, warriors and slingers and run around shouting die die die!
 
Religion will be normally be available for the earliest wins, as it hits its stride in the Renaissance era. I think the only one that would be close would be a domination victory on a Pangaea map.
 
Love the brutality of your strategy. Only concern is that if I understood well scouts get xp from exploration, not combat. So maybe it's better to build a mix of scouts, warriors and slingers and run around shouting die die die!

The XP for exploration is only in addition to normal XP
here a screenshot of a scout gaining XP from combat
q75NaxD.png

of course after the first promotion XP is capped to 1 per attack versus barbs but not against city states

With Germany you would scout a few turns in the beginning then direct your starting warrior and about 3-4 scouts to one city state while continuing to scout with the rest.
This strat hugely depends on if city states start with walls on higher difficulty. If they don't you can just capture them if not you might have to wait for your archers to be ready and meanwhile farm XP and heal in safe zone around the city state and in rough terrain.
Germany also has the +5 combat vs barbs and double XP for scout policy combo early which makes your scouts get the first promotion earlier and easier. Especially if you have way more scouts than ppl usually get you can tag team some barbs with multiples scouts if required. But beware of horsemen barbs you have to use your warrior/archers for those.
 
Is the +20 str for scouts enough to kill everyone? They're still weaker than spearmen

Why not just play as the Aztecs and start off with a str 28 unit (scouts are initially 10) then earn promotions on top of that?

Sure they are worse than eagle warriors. But you can get 6 of them for 120 production. That is less production than 2 spearmen. And you will have more already out and doing stuff. Additionally they cost ZERO upkeep. More units mean more flanking, more healing, more scouting and capturing of civilian units.
And if they get to the third promotion they are a serious threat with a decent combat rating and still very nice movement. Other archers will have a serious issue with a 3 movement double move in forest/hill CS 30 unit.

As for why not play the Aztec in my above post I said I am going to play them. But if this strategy works Germany could be even more OP than aztec and rome who are otherwise almost the most OP civs by far. As I said the success depends largely on how the citry states start in higher difficulties. So when do they get walls and how big are the city combat ratings.

edit: the eagle warrior is an awesome unit but it is also very expensive
in the build we saw them it cost 43 production that is more than double than a scout and 43% more than a warrior
that might change til release build but if it stays its still very worthwile for aztec to produce scouts and slingers as well and only use a couple of eagle warriors for the killshots
 
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I think I read somewhere that they went with some combat bonuses on higher difficulty, this might make some rushes effective on lower ones, but DIW on Immortal or Deity. I can easily see how that scout rush could fail if the enemy just had a few extra points of defense and the Recon upgrade is very far down the line so even 35 strength with the 3rd promotion won't be great for long.

To me, the real question right now is how hard can you expand and still get away with it. I also wonder how effective horses are... They really gave em good stat values this time around... Knights are pretty much tanks. The fact that archers don't ZOC by default might be relevant in a real fight, but the new movement rules favor the defender if they have a good hills to shoot from. Hard to tell.
 
I think I read somewhere that they went with some combat bonuses on higher difficulty, this might make some rushes effective on lower ones, but DIW on Immortal or Deity. I can easily see how that scout rush could fail if the enemy just had a few extra points of defense and the Recon upgrade is very far down the line so even 35 strength with the 3rd promotion won't be great for long.
I think I saw a "difficulty level" modifier on the city combat rating screen. So it seems city are harder to conquer on higher difficulty levels. I agree with you that this might make this strategy fail depending on the actual numbers.

Yes defender and archers are still king. What also helps for city defense is that almost all cities are on a river and the movement helper of city for rivers and of course the disadvantages the attacker has attacking through it.
 
I'm in minority of players who like to play 'optimally', without fooling around, roleplaying, etc.

Probably after few first 'test' games I will start to play in this way, so my question:

With one week to release, do anyone have any thoughts for possible optimal strategies for fastest finish times in Civ6?

I almost haven't watched any yt videos, or read previews, so right now I have only this thoughts:

- better have more cities than in Civ5
- ranged units still seem to be OP, so domination on Pangea with CBs and XBs

Any thoughts?

It's a bit too early to be honest. That forum will explose at release but right now.... we have youtube videos where almost nobody is playing optimally and it is very hard to test theories or the impact of some better coordination without testing it ourselves.
We also don't know what deity looks like at all.

That said there are indeed a few things that come up from this. What I say is mostly from a science victory perspective :

There are no similar mechanics to tradition. Meaning we can forget about making small empires to snowball to the end game. There are a few reasons :

1. No small empire policies etc. The most a small empire gets is cheaper districts but the advantage of this is doubtful considering you don't need to fill all your cities with a ton of districts. GPP points from districts scale with empire size so it's only natural to have some penalty for size due to the way higher production.

2. Housing is a hard limiter to growth. Sources of housing are plenty but you need to spend time building stuff to increase it. So far one of the earliest skills player will have to develop is to manage this house cap to make sure the food yields are not wasted (and there is a lot of food with hills no longer removing food yields). It's something that is as nasty localy as unhappiness in civ5 but in a more sneaky way. When I see players spending 40 turns house capped and shruging it off it means players still don't understand how poor play that is.
Making settlers (decrease pop) will help and later a good management of growth/buildings will be the key to success.

3. Science needs for late game techs is low compared to civ5. The reason is the absence of % modifiers to science meaning 150 science is good enough to tech end game techs in 12 turns. It matters because pop still give science (and culture) at the rate of 0.7 per pop. This means a huge chunk of science comes from population WITHOUT BUILDINGS. And without tech penalties it makes trying to get science from both growth and expansion the main way for teching. The other way to get science is from campuses and a few other bonuses.

4. Capturing cities let you keep a lot of it. The loss of pop, getting its districts and no courthouses make captured city a very good prospect for mid/late game addition to the empire.

Speaking of conquest we will have to see how the AI fights at higher difficulties but yes currently archers and crossbows have good capture potential. On the low difficulty presented in let's play you can safely win in very few turns with these.

Besides that, a lot of it will come from the synchronisation a player can achieve between eurekas, policies and making things useful for the empire.

Also right now trade is completely broken/buggy so here's hoping they'll fix it but if they fail to do that a lot of finishing fast will have to do with abusing trade.

For other victories :
-Domination will be your usual rushes with range units afaik. We'll see how higher AI defends.
-Culture is still a bit of a mistery to me but a lot of it still depends on your tech rate.
-Religion is about faith spam and will likely also be in the faster victories.
 
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3. Science needs for late game techs is low compared to civ5. The reason is the absence of % modifiers to science meaning 150 science is good enough to tech end game techs in 12 turns. It matters because pop still give science (and culture) at the rate of 0.7 per pop. This means a huge chunk of science comes from population WITHOUT BUILDINGS. And without tech penalties it makes trying to get science from both growth and expansion the main way for teching. The other way to get science is from campuses and a few other bonuses.
WTH? Is this true?
 
Why the heck would you want to finish the fast?
Are you in the fastest eater competition?
Enjoy the flavour of the game or don't play at all.
 
WTH? Is this true?

Yes, watch the Marbozir tech video. The last tech tier is 1500ish science per tech. But by itself it's not a problem since you have less science. It however changes the dynamic a lot compared to civ5 where +Raw science is really good in civ6.
 
Why the heck would you want to finish the fast?
Are you in the fastest eater competition?
Enjoy the flavour of the game or don't play at all.

Not to argue, but speaking for myself, I don't care how people play their Civ game, as long as they don't pirate it or the DLC to come. Just buy it and enjoy.
 
I hate empty tiles, so I don't like rushing to victories.
 
Why the heck would you want to finish the fast?
Are you in the fastest eater competition?.
I like playing competitively and I suppose you have never heard about such forum features like GOTM or HOF?
Enjoy the flavour of the game or don't play at all.
LOL...

Also right now trade is completely broken/buggy so here's hoping they'll fix it but if they fail to do that a lot of finishing fast will have to do with abusing trade.

Any examples?

Is it possible to trade gpt for lump sum without DoF?

If yes, we can expect come back infamous strategy with DoW everyone on first contact.
 
I like playing competitively
Any examples?

Is it possible to trade gpt for lump sum without DoF?

If yes, we can expect come back infamous strategy with DoW everyone on first contact.

I could invent many examples.u
Its completely buggy in the preview build. Like getting a relic for 1 gold from the ai or selling luxuries for way too much.
 
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