Optimization Revealed

No. History has shown that brutality may be very effective in bringing people to heel, but wanton murder incites resistance. The Soviet Union managed to avoid armed resistance primarily because Stalin purged its officer corps, and the German invasion provided another enemy before new factions could develop. Later, his policies were dropped. They could never have worked long-term, as Nazi policies could not have. Besides, Stalin's course of action deprived him of many talented people, something I'm sure you'd be against.

Eventually, when faced with a join or die decision, those that join will be taken care of. Once they are in they will probably be very bitter about their lack of options, though serious counseling and therapy, massive amounts of retraining and propoganda, their mindset will change, and they will continue the efforts of Optimization. And talent is replaceable.

Nukes would also encourage massive retaliation. Not to mention the aforementioned collateral damage. Biological weapons are far superior, cheaper and potentially much more effective.

With a terrorist organization destroying several major cities, and perhaps attempting to plant counter-intelligence to show it was another nation that had defense pacts, the massive retalliation would be at nations not the organization. Besides, massive retalliation against such a small group wouldn't come in the form of nukes or bioweapons. Bioweapons take longer to kill, and could potentially spread into areas that you wouldn't want harmed, and perhaps even cause an epidemic that beats you to every place you go.


And becoming dependent on it for survival would be good because? It would result in more deaths than your termination policy. Optimal guerrila groups would be annihilated by their powerful enemies. Unless you think the Nazis could have gained power without popular support.

I don't know how the drugs of the future will work I'm sure they would be pretty advanced to avoid this problem. And again, not if the powerful enemies suspect someone else. Start WWIII and sit back, and then afterwards pick up the ball and run towards the end zone.


Not for quite some time. Look at the stagnation of science under the Soviet Union. Their space program collapsed after the US developed plastics and solid fuels, things the Russians didn't even have the industries for. Something similar would happen under your system.

I know, I never claimed progress wouldn't nearly be halted for awhile, once Optimization picks up and the rebuilding occurs, it would flourish though. Kind of like setting a forrest on fire, it's great for the new plants that grow.

Chazumi, congratulations with your new daughter. but, do you wish that she grows up in a world like that?

I don't want to get too personal, but I saw what complications the birth had. Do you think she would be deemed "fit" in an optimization society?

Just think about it.

She's not new, I have made several threads to include her birth 7 months ago, and her release from the hospital about 2.5 months later when I was in Iraq. Her birth defect is irrelevant however, because it happened before Optimization will take place, and it's an environmental disorder not genetic, so I'm not sure what the Optimals of tomorrow would make of the condition, and whether or not future babies would be terminated due to this. I am guessing that babies are grown in tubes eventually.
 
I haven't bothered to read all of Optizumi's posts but I feel like responsing still.

Your optimization leads to slave morality, to flocks of unthinking sheep that follow the orders without desires or goals of their own. I've never understood why the people who most loudly speak for social darwinism always dream of becoming slaves. If I'd get to optimize mankind the result would be something else than hordes of automatons toiling away their lives never even dreaming of something else.

Her birth defect is irrelevant however, because it happened before Optimization will take place

Eh, if she has a birth defect shouldn't she be optimized away (among the rest of the billions)? Or do you think optimization should not start until she's lived her life? Or maybe optimization shouldn't apply to her because she's your daughter? Or maybe you're a hypocrite?
 
This is another communism religion ideology thing and if ever implemented millions would die.
 
Machiavelli promoted the idea of amorality - not immorality - to achieve one's goals. If punching an old lady helps you achieve your goals, that can be seen as Machiavellian. Of course, there are several ways to read Machiavelli, but uniting Italy against the 'barbarians' - his primary goal - is neither moral nor immoral, so I choose to read it in the aforementioned manner.
Well, I'm not going to get too much into "he said" debate, because it is mostly tangental and my knowledge on the subject isn't that great. I would believe that Machiaveli considered Italian unification a moral thing, and something worthy of the injustice perpetrated.

My main thrust is this, one should not do harm unless for a greater moral imperative. Simply having goals doesn't cut it. If your goal is to say punch a 1000 old ladies, then your goal does not justify punching an old lady, however if your goal is to say prevent a nuclear accident from leaking radiation all over Boston, and punchign a lady is the only means by which you can attain the goal, then you should.

I'm not buying this no morality bunk. Other people matter, morality matters.
 
Eh, if she has a birth defect shouldn't she be optimized away (among the rest of the billions)? Or do you think optimization should not start until she's lived her life? Or maybe optimization shouldn't apply to her because she's your daughter? Or maybe you're a hypocrite?

How do you deduce I am a hypocrite from what I said? I said what happens to her before Optimization is irrelevent because it hasn't taken place so nothing is being Optimized, and even when the assimilation is finished, everything beforehand would be overlooked provided she continued to perform Optimally. She is fixed, she is "normal" now with the exception of no belly button, and what did happen to her was not genetic it was environmental. Optimization will start as soon as I can perfect the assimilation process and the proper opportunity presents itself. Of course Optimization should apply to my daughter, where did I say it shouldn't? Hopefully she would perform Optimally and continue to further the movement.
 
Chazumi, your optimization government is pure garbage. And not even good garbage. It's just stinking bad garbage. It's the worst of fascism + communism. The only things needing termination are your utopia Hell on Earth and you for advocating it. All you've done is just rename totalitarianism.
 
How do you deduce I am a hypocrite from what I said?

I can do that even from your reply. The first definition of hypocrite by Google is "a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives".

I said what happens to her before Optimization is irrelevent because it hasn't taken place so nothing is being Optimized

You're clearly not willing to live the optimized live. Either you're stupid (for not optimizing your own life), coward (for waiting the optimization to begin en masse before doing anything) or an impostor.

and even when the assimilation is finished, everything beforehand would be overlooked provided she continued to perform Optimally. She is fixed, she is "normal" now with the exception of no belly button, and what did happen to her was not genetic it was environmental.

"Continued to perform Optimally"? Is requiring a surgery to survive birth optimal? Why should resources be spent to "fix" a child when so many are born healthy? What does it matter whether sub-optimality is through genetics or environment?

Optimization will start as soon as I can perfect the assimilation process and the proper opportunity presents itself.

And until that you voluntarily live sub-optimal life? Are you just waiting armies to gather on your lawn or are you actually doing something concrete to proceed with this optimization (writing to CFC doesn't count concrete)? Or are you just daydreaming of slavery?

Of course Optimization should apply to my daughter, where did I say it shouldn't? Hopefully she would perform Optimally and continue to further the movement.

Wasting resources to fix what's born broken goes against the spirit of optimization. You (and your wife) only fixed her because of personal interest which is against the spirit of optimization.

So indeed I think you're a hypocrite. You preach the wonders of optimization while leading sub-optimized life yourself. You're subjugating yourself to first law of termination by serving your non-optimized government - an enemy you should be fighting against. You demand those who refuse to be killed while you do nothing (out of fear?) and serve the enemies of optimization.

Also, why do you want to become a slave?
 
I didn't notice the discussion had gone into killing suboptimal children. Chazumi, your utopia Hell on Earth government is Nazism #2. So THAT's why you chose that avatar. And your attempt at hijacking a perfectly innocent word (optimization) for such a repugnant new definition is an insult to humanity.
 
I can do that even from your reply. The first definition of hypocrite by Google is "a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives".

Are you implying that I would not attempt to make Optimization a reality? I'm still confused on where the hypocrite part comes into play.



You're clearly not willing to live the optimized live. Either you're stupid (for not optimizing your own life), coward (for waiting the optimization to begin en masse before doing anything) or an impostor.

First of all, living an Optimized life as an individual or even a small group is ******** because the time and resources required to complete and maintain Optimization would in no way be justified for what would be gained from it. Optimization is a large scale system of government, because of the many parts required to run it. Individuals are Optimized, but are so small in the sense of the big picture that it takes a huge group of them to create what is Optimization. From what it sounds like you are implying that Optimization is like, organizing all the grains of rice in my house in perfect order from small to big, and accounting for every single grain of sand in the backyard, like some obsessive compulsive machine. Optimized production = Maximized production, Optimized laws, regulations, and training methods = minimal waste and termination rates, Optimized research = discoveries and technological advances in unprecedented time frames, Optimized construction and expansion = maximum living space for individuals and development at higher rates for half the cost etc.
As far as "waiting like a coward for an opportunity", well let me just go grab a gun and kick in the front door of the whitehouse, because we all know it's just that easy right? Please.


"Continued to perform Optimally"? Is requiring a surgery to survive birth optimal? Why should resources be spent to "fix" a child when so many are born healthy? What does it matter whether sub-optimality is through genetics or environment?

No it is not Optimal, especially after a few generations of Optimization when fetuses are grown by permit and monitored, these would be terminated with a new one replacing it, most likely because it is more resourceful to start again without having to spend resources to fix a problem. 2nd Question has been answered, resources shouldn't be spent, it should be terminated and a new one created. Genetical defects or environmental defects would both be terminated, what you are trying to get at is that because I let the government pay for a surgical procedure on my daughter I somehow am a huge hypocrite and if Optimization ever succeeded I would be the exception to it. Wrong, why wouldn't I continue to live in the society already present, doing the best I can given the situation, and strike when the goal is obtainable? What do you want me to stick my head in the ground and pull it out every 5 years and yell "Surprise!" and hope somehow things happened the way I wanted them to? The future is guided by individuals, to swim up stream your whole life and hope the river somehow starts flowing in the opposite direction is stupid, you find a raft, float down it until you find an Optimal place to build a dam, and redirect it where you want it to go.



And until that you voluntarily live sub-optimal life? Are you just waiting armies to gather on your lawn or are you actually doing something concrete to proceed with this optimization (writing to CFC doesn't count concrete)? Or are you just daydreaming of slavery?

Without the assimilation process perfected and a proper opportunity I don't know what to do, do you? While I am still young I continue to improve myself in as many aspects applicable to my goals, and wait until I hit those crossroads. Not much else can really be done at this particular point, but I think spreading the concept and practicing orator skills is a pretty good start.



Wasting resources to fix what's born broken goes against the spirit of optimization. You (and your wife) only fixed her because of personal interest which is against the spirit of optimization.

I know it does. And my wife and I only "fixed" her because it was free on our part. No resources on our part were wasted at all, I don't see how that can be conceived as non-Optimal. Now if the resources that went into "fixing" her came from an Optimized system of government, that would be a different story. Why not leech off systems of government you are attempting to change anyways? Sounds ignorant not to.

So indeed I think you're a hypocrite. You preach the wonders of optimization while leading sub-optimized life yourself. You're subjugating yourself to first law of termination by serving your non-optimized government - an enemy you should be fighting against. You demand those who refuse to be killed while you do nothing (out of fear?) and serve the enemies of optimization.

I am not subjecting myself to the first rule of termination because I haven't refused the system, it hasn't presented itself in a tangible way so how can I refuse it? Serving the government that I would assimilate in a heartbeat is the best course of action I can think of to get me to my personal goals. Ever heard of "Know thy enemy," or, "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer?", not that, at the level I am now somehow scouting out the government for weak points, but think how many big time politicians have done military service. Makes sense right? You say that I demand those who refuse be killed, while I do nothing. Well, when it reaches this point, I will be doing everything I can for Optimization, I'm not just going to get a group of 15 guys and go door to door and start shooting people if they refuse, if this were to succeed it would have to be done with some sort of common sense and tactics, neither of which you have applied to your accusations.

Also, why do you want to become a slave?

I don't see how it can be conceived as slavery if you accept the system.
 
alexhospital092eu9.jpg

your daughter, who i know, you love and care for.
cost of surgery: 180.000 dollars.
It got paid with your healthcare funded by the taxpayer.

250pxenthanasiepropagande7.jpg

Nazi propaganda for Nazi Germany's T-4 Euthanasia Program: "This person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community 60,000 Reichsmark during his lifetime. Fellow German, that is your money, too."


Do you really want her to be born in your utopia?
 


Do you really want her to be born in your utopia?[/QUOTE]

Again I don't understand the implications. If not using the Optimized governments resources, there isn't a flaw in the system in letting them remain in the society, provided that they don't have obvious genetic defects which could A) be passed on, or B) Continue to cost the Optimized system resources to maintain.

Maybe you could explain it to me. I mean it's like, let's arrest and kill everyone that smoked weed before it became illegal. Doesn't sound very Optimal to me. Optimals don't start providing for the Optimized system of government until it actually exists which it doesn't, therefore they cannot drain the resources of a system that doesn't exist.
 
Again I don't understand the implications. If not using the Optimized governments resources, there isn't a flaw in the system in letting them remain in the society, provided that they don't have obvious genetic defects which could A) be passed on, or B) Continue to cost the Optimized system resources to maintain.

Maybe you could explain it to me. I mean it's like, let's arrest and kill everyone that smoked weed before it became illegal. Doesn't sound very Optimal to me. Optimals don't start providing for the Optimized system of government until it actually exists which it doesn't, therefore they cannot drain the resources of a system that doesn't exist.

answer my question:

Do you really want her to be born in your utopia?
 
answer my question:

Do you really want her to be born in your utopia?

I want everyone to be born in my Utopia, to include my daughter. Now answer mine.
 
you don't have a question. You have an excuse

you know she will be terminated.

Now, are you willing to sacrifice her for your ideals?

My question was in the thread above yours! And why would she be terminated! I still don't think you guys understand what I am saying, or somehow I don't understand what you guys are saying!

PLEASE EXPLAIN!
 
My question was in the thread above yours! And why would she be terminated! I still don't think you guys understand what I am saying, or somehow I don't understand what you guys are saying!

PLEASE EXPLAIN!

She would die chazumi.

She still lives becuase we live in a society which has humanistic values in it.

She still lives becuase poeple fought a bloody war vs the monsters who would love to carry out your utopia.

your society is build on the corpses of the unfit and the tears of the meek.

the blood would be on your hands.

you advocate murder and destruction.

Your utopia is a cancer. A gargantesque abonimation which feeds on suffering.

As long as anyone has a shred of humanity, they will spit on your ideals.
 
She would die chazumi.

She still lives becuase we live in a society which has humanistic values in it.

She still lives becuase poeple fought a bloody war vs the monsters who would love to carry out your utopia.

your society is build on the corpses of the unfit and the tears of the meek.

the blood would be on your hands.

you advocate murder and destruction.

Your utopia is a cancer. A gargantesque abonimation which feeds on suffering.

As long as anyone has a shred of humanity, they will spit on your ideals.

Yeah everyone dies eventually. And what justifies Optimization as being labeled as a cancer? Because the holocaust was? How are you so positive that you aren't blindly living your life as the cancer, and Optimization is the radiation from the chemo?

Optimization feeds on suffering and death, in order to eliminate that which creates suffering and death.
 
YOU ARE SUBOTPIMAL
YOU WILL BE ELIMINATED
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:
:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:
:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:
:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:

Again Perfection is already demonstrating his advanced skills in an Optimal government. Where are the rest of you, helllooooo?

BTW it must have been fate Perfy: Perfection ~ Optimization, I like it!
 
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