Oromo Warriors vs. Rifles

[jerVL/kg]

I'm playing my first game as Zara, was having a nice peaceful builder game when suddenly, Ragnar declared on Wang Kon and asked me to join. Naturally I said yes (I've been buttering up Ragnar the whole game) but my plan is to actually let Raggy exhaust himself taking over Korea, then backstab him and capture all his cities. Yep, I'm a stinker like that.

My question: How good are Oromo Warriors in combat? I'll have Military Tradition (for janissaries) in 4 turns and can get Rifling in another four turns -- I'd feel more comfortable with Cavalry instead -- but is it worth obsoleting Oromos for riflemen? Or should I beeline Chemistry/Steel for frigates/cannons instead? I've never played Zara before so I have no idea how good Oromos are at taking cities.

I should point out that I have a sizeable tech lead over everyone (Raggy doesn't even have berzerkers yet, though he will soon) plus I'm in the middle of a 45-turn golden age...gotta love that Mausoleum!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Make stacks of oromos and upgrade them. The drill promos carry and you can easily have a nice stack of drill IV rifles.

Oromos themselves are pretty strong in combat unless they bump into knights or more modern units. I use them much like I use muskets in general, but then I use muskets more than others it seems.

If you have oromos, you CAN'T have janissaries...that's a different civ's UU. Did you mean the cuirassers? They come with military tradition and gunpowder, and coupled with spies are pretty strong until rifles show up.

Your super GA and tech lead is such a strong position it isn't even funny and barely matters. I'd say use the GA to mass up gold, build up a bunch of drill IV oromos, upgrade them, and just march through ragnar like it's nothing. If he doesn't have guilds yet when you do that, he's more than screwed. I'd advocate some spies because I doubt you'll need or collateral with that kind of tech lead, so just make it go as fast as possible. If you do get chemistry a couple frigates can bombard coastal defenses as an alternative.

 

[jerVL/kg]

If you have oromos, you CAN'T have janissaries...that's a different civ's UU. Did you mean the cuirassers?

Yes, I meant cuirassers of course -- although janissaries would be AWESOME, in fact, at first I thought it was Oromos that had a 50% bonus against all medieval units, instead of just boring Drill II...

Your super GA and tech lead is such a strong position it isn't even funny and barely matters. I'd say use the GA to mass up gold, build up a bunch of drill IV oromos, upgrade them, and just march through ragnar like it's nothing.

Is Drill IV better than Combat II? (I'm just about to switch to Theocracy so I'll have 5XP units out of the gate.) Also, would Grenadiers suffice just as well as rifles? I typically delay rifling as long as possible because it obsoletes all cheap medieval units...including Oromos, right?

Too bad a hurricane just struck my capital, wiping out ALL my science buildings...oh well, Spiral Minaret's due in 2 turns.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Drill II is superior to combat II when you have a sufficient difference in power to begin with. Drill considerably increases you chances of emerging from battle unscathed, or taking less damage. Knights are immune to first strikes of course, but otherwise if you're attacking at high odds you wont take a whole lot of damage typically. Drill IV is particularly vicious when it comes to this. Coupled with a medic unit you'll barely have to stop.

If I could have a choice between drill IV or C2 (without factoring in the promos needed to get to these), I would take drill IV on almost every single unit (taking combat only to deal with first strike immune attacks).

Grenadiers are a bit weaker than rifles (12 str vs 14) and don't get a bonus vs knights. That said, I often go that route because cannons are there too. Oromos upgraded to grenadiers (which you can do, make an oromo then upgrade it immediately) would be some powerful grenadiers. If it's going to be like that, grab some picks and give them combat, then knights won't trigger grenadiers or cannons on defense, they'll have to deal with the pikes (which are cheap units that you can make easily by this point). That stack will last and be quite effective until your opponent gets cavalry.

If you have this much of a lead though, I emphasize again: just murder him with whatever, quickly get to infantry after that, and just walk all over the rest of the world with those. Infantry DOMINATE all earlier era units hard, thanks to their gunpowder bonus and 20 str. Pinch infantry are just stupid. They have high odds on rifles attacking amphibiously without amphibious promos oftentimes (exception being a CG 2+ promo rifle). On land it's no contest.

 

[CivCorpse]

@me in team, You forgot to mention that drill4 gives +10% vs mounted. That being the case, I would just take rifles, wait on MT and go for cannons. If you have some oromos, upgrade them but don't waste gold promoting new ones just for the first strikes. Rifles have a built in +25% vs mounted anyway. Use the gold to upgrade trebs to cannons. And any macemen to rifles.

On second thought. With that huge of a tech lead I would build a chunk of Oromos under vassalage and theo. About a dozen will do and promote them to Combat1->medic. You do have a super medic unit don't you? You really don't need promos to increase the odds.
Three exp later you give them march. At that point the train never stops.

 

[Diamondeye]

Janissiaries have +25%, and Oromos are not boring. If your enemy does not yet have maces, what are you waiting for? I'd grab steel asap while pumpiong out Oromos, perhaps even go for Nationalism for drafting, and go Theo+Vassalage, which should get some rather nasty Oromos out fast. Some nice promotion lines for Oromos are:
Drill III+IV, then Combat.
Woodsman I-III, then Drill.
Combat.

Combat are mostly against Knights. The woodmen are actually quite deadly since WIII= DIV in terms of Firststrikes, so DIV + WIII = (6-9 first strikes?).

Then, go grab your continent.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

I decided to attack before Rifling, since Ragnar had taken several Korean cities and his stack was wounded & exposed. Turns out that Drill IV Oromos fare very well against longbows, often winning despite tough odds, even without siege or spies. Of course, once I upgraded them to rifles, it was a total slaughterhouse...

Also, whenever I razed a city Ragnar had taken from Wang Kon, it spawned Korean partisan units instead of Viking ones! How very strange...

Pinch infantry? Bah! I'll have this continent conquered before the AI comes anywhere near gunpowder!

You do have a super medic unit don't you?

Yes, he's a War Elephant with Morale/Medic III -- I dunno, I think he looks cool.

 

[jerVL/kg]

...Oromos are not boring.

Heh...admittedly, I've never played around with Drill promotions before. Turns out they're awesome!

BTW, Oromos don't upgrade to grenadiers...only rifles.

 

[CivCorpse]

Janissiaries have +25%, and Oromos are not boring. If your enemy does not yet have maces, what are you waiting for? I'd grab steel asap while pumpiong out Oromos, perhaps even go for Nationalism for drafting, and go Theo+Vassalage, which should get some rather nasty Oromos out fast. Some nice promotion lines for Oromos are:
Drill III+IV, then Combat.
Woodsman I-III, then Drill.
Combat.

Combat are mostly against Knights. The woodmen are actually quite deadly since WIII= DIV in terms of Firststrikes, so DIV + WIII = (6-9 first strikes?).

Then, go grab your continent.

Ummm, that is a LOT of promos. you need 26 exp before you get the combat promotion. As for Knights....it doesn't matter if you have Drill100, knights are immune to first strikes

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Heh...admittedly, I've never played around with Drill promotions before. Turns out they're awesome!

BTW, Oromos don't upgrade to grenadiers...only rifles.

My bad, it's only maces that upgrade to grenades . TBH despite how many people swear by massing something then upgrading it I rarely bother or find it worthwhile outside of a few CR grenadiers. That kind of gold can be applied to getting the power tech sooner or as leverage in trades (massive upgrades of enough troops for it to matter would be nearly a tech's worth of deficit research). I apologize for mistaken advice...

 

[Diamondeye]

Ummm, that is a LOT of promos. you need 26 exp before you get the combat promotion. As for Knights....it doesn't matter if you have Drill100, knights are immune to first strikes

Oromos are Drill I+II innate. Drill IV is 5 xp. Combat starts at 10.
Drill IV provides +10% against mounted, so Oromos ~ Knights.

besides, you should bring either your own knights or pikes.

 

[JTMacc99]

Oromos are one of those UU's that I like because I can keep the good thing about them when I upgrade. I'm a big fan of upgrading ground troops and fighters. Not so much with the navy (too expensive) and siege (promotions don't mean much on troop I plan to sacrafice.)

Other than the useful promotions that carry along with upgrades, I get a lot of use out of the jump in the power graph when I upgrade the whole damn world to infantry. That move almost always keeps the AI out of my hair until I can finish up whatever victory I am trying to achieve.

 

[CivCorpse]

Oromos are one of those UU's that I like because I can keep the good thing about them when I upgrade. I'm a big fan of upgrading ground troops and fighters. Not so much with the navy (too expensive) and siege (promotions don't mean much on troop I plan to sacrafice.)

Other than the useful promotions that carry along with upgrades, I get a lot of use out of the jump in the power graph when I upgrade the whole damn world to infantry. That move almost always keeps the AI out of my hair until I can finish up whatever victory I am trying to achieve.

I disapree on the non-upgrade of siege. Cats are too expensive but treb-cannon is one of the cheaper upgrades in the game. And if you get steel early enough CR3 cannons usually survive until Rifles or MG's. Also the ones you promoted to Accuracy that never fight are a definate upgrade.

 

[Daedal]

Yes, he's a War Elephant with Morale/Medic III -- I dunno, I think he looks cool.

I can just imagine a trained elephant with a white cross on its side lumbering across the battlefield, picking up wounded left and right with its tusks, and tossing them into a gurney on its back. Interesting choice of ambulance.

 

[Levgre]

As for Knights....it doesn't matter if you have Drill100, knights are immune to first strikes

they are only immune when they are on the attack I believe, I could be wrong though.

 

[oyzar]

You are wrong.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Although the highest drill promotions do give a slight bonus against mounted, drill utterly sucks as a promo vs mounted...flanking II will give first strike immunity to whatever troops don't have it inherently.

 

[oyzar]

Drill is pretty good against elephants and cavs most of the time but generaly it sucks yeah...

 

[Diamondeye]

An Oromo Drill IV has higher odds against an unpromoted cavalry than against an unpromoted Knight, iirc.

 

[CivCorpse]

An Oromo Drill IV has higher odds against an unpromoted cavalry than against an unpromoted Knight, iirc.

I Usually send a memo to the enemy requesting they do not promote their cavalry or knights. Though the AI tends to favor Combat promotions for mounted units