OSG1 - Team One - Da n00bz

[Sirian]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.



We have learned Class II shield while the breakthrough percentage was still very low! I guess that makes up for the delays on learning Gatling Laser, which had dragged out.

Class III is missing from our tree. So Personal Deflector it is. That is good, another gropo tech.

In other news, the Nova event did not factor the new arrivals at Xudax, and they have boosted production so much, the problem has already been solved!



Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I didn't even have to use any of the reserve. I take Ursa off of industrial spending and put that money back into bases and research.


OK, so it is now 2369AD. My coordinated 3-system attack is about to play out. We have transports from Gorra and Ursa, and ships from Ursa and Trax, all arriving simultaneously at Jinga.

I press next turn. Let the battle be joined! :shotgun:



Space combat. Yeah, bring on those popgun fighters. Yeah.



Um... no. What is that doing here? Aw crap. It usually takes about six or seven medium ships to equal a large. This is not good news. I anticipated facing SMALL ships, which is what we knew they had from before.

Well, we still have a chance. Our four medium ships have battle computers and six lasers each. As anticipated, the planet is at max pop. We know that ship has no advanced weaponry, because we've seen the Alkari don't know any weapon tech besides hand laser. They didn't have a shield tech above class I either, nor any armor. Indeed, their ship has 100 hp. I must tell you frankly, though, the odds here do not favor us.

I use our Scout 2 ship to approach the enemy ship first. It gets blasted out of the sky at two space range. The enemy design is packing heavy lasers and nuclear missiles. Our frigates close and engage.

We shoot, they shoot and back up a space. We chase, we shoot, they shoot. We chase and shoot, they shoot and destroy one of our ships. Here's the situation at this point, their ship still above half strength.



We are still in the fight! Maybe we can pull this off.

We shoot, and mostly we miss. They shoot, POW. High damage, killed a ship in one shot. Yeowch. I don't give up. We close, we shoot, arrgh another low damage shot for us. They shoot, POW, we're down to one ship. Game, set and match to Alkari.



We brought a knife to a gunfight. Uh... oops.

I manage to limp out of there with one survivor. The Alkari got in another shot (there is a one-turn delay between ordering a retreat and actually retreating). I think we had 1 hp left, or maybe 2. This is not good news. That large ship and its weapons will be shooting our incoming transports like duck cutouts at a carnival shooting booth.

 

[Sirian]

I have been keeping an eye on Alkari tech. They have learned two techs since our weapon theft. They have learned ECM Jammer II and Industrial Tech 9.

Our invasion is still pending. Space combat took place first, now espionage, then a colony ship will settle, and the invasion will be the last thing resolved for this between-turn phase.

Our spies succeed!



We have not penetrated enough to grab ECM II, which is a level 7 tech. Yet we can grab a propulsion tech. This means we have penetrated 5 or maybe 6 layers of security. Terraforming +20 is a level 8 tech and we have no chance to grab it on this try. So, the options on the table include: Industrial 9 (we already have 8), Terraforming 10, Range 5 and MAYBE Nuclear Engine, which is a level 6 tech. Maybe the engine, maybe not. I can conclude only that our penetration is above level 4 and below level 7.

Clearly the best value in this case is to grab a propulsion tech. We could take Terraforming 10 another day, on a lower penetration success. We may have needed TWO spies succeeding to get this deep. If not, we certainly needed a luckier roll, as we have gone deeper than the last time out. We ourselves have such a drought in our propulsion branch that either propulsion tech will offer a major boost. I make the logical grab.



Either the engine was not an option, or we rolled unlucky. In any event, we grab Range 5. That's a 1000 RP value.

Our first LR Colony arrives up north.



I will send a scout on from there to the unscouted system up in the corner. Whether or not to send colonists on a long journey up to that system will be Charis's decision to make.


OK, so now for the big battle. Ouchie. That lone Alkari ship shoots down half our transports! The other half run the gauntlet and make it to the planet surface.



OK, here we go. Pound some dirt. Boots on the ground. Knock some heads. Mix it up.



Due to losses inflicted in space, by the orbiting Alkari fleet of one ship, the invasion fails.



We inflicted significant casualties, so the mission is not a total wash, but I failed to anticipate the Alkari building a large ship and having it parked there. (They tend to favor small ships!)

I hope you find this instructive. How to coordinate an attack, how many troops to send, the risks of sending an attack blind, without first having firm control in orbit with a fleet, and the potential rewards of aggression if you do correctly identify how much strength is needed to win the day.

 

[Sirian]

Thanks in part to the small boost I gave to its growth curve earlier, transfering some BC from reserve to the artifacts planet, it has maxed factories as my round ends.



I order a missile base to be built at the best possible rate. Be nice to have two or three in place there before we turn the planet to heavy research. At least, that's what I would do. I'm a cautionary sort when it comes to protecting my territory.


The Alkari are less than pleased, to say the least.



However, they have only withdrawn their ambassador. No war declaration was issued, and they have not cancelled our trade agreement. If we had succeeded, we'd be at war right now. They may yet declare on us soon, as relations are now in the toilet. In for a penny, in for a pound. If I were in charge next round, I'd press another attack!

Also note, TWO spies. We may have needed both to penetrate as deeply as we did, or maybe not. If at any point one of the spies gets seriously unlucky, found, interrogated, and gives up information, all our spies in place at that time will be discovered and we'll be starting over on building up our spies. Thus, the more spies needed to succeed at a hard task, the longer the odds become of pulling it off. Keeping up in computer tech is absolutely essential to any spying strategy. Fall too far behind and it becomes virtually impossible to achieve a major penetration.

Meanwhile, Trax (which also got an earlier boost from reserves) has reached the factory threshold. There are 32m pop, 63 factories. I change the spending over to defenses. Be nice to stand up a base here at this point, maybe two, in case the Alkari counter with an offensive move of their own.



If we are going to battle for Jinga again, we will need to assemble a winning fleet. We just learned new weapon and shield techs. If we are ever to put them to good use, now's the time, as their value decays toward obsolescence with each passing turn.

I design a new warship.



We need to gain as much attack rating benefit as we can, thus the need for better computers. We can gain a level of computer value from a Battle Scanner, but those are currently too pricey to put on medium ships. Thus, a large ship. Also, we want to load up that new shield, and that is also better done on a large ship. Also, we suffered attrition in the medium ships. Even if we had won the day, we'd have lost strength. In this situation, I'd say we're clearly better off with a couple of large ships loaded to the gills with our best goodies, than we would be with a swarm of smaller ships. If a large ship gets in trouble, retreat can be ordered with less likelihood of having taken any casualties. All ship damage is repaired between turns, so any ship that survived a fight will be back to full strength next time. (Yep, that means we did NO damage to Alkari fleets in this attack).

I order up our best two worlds to construct the new design. We'll produce one apiece at Ursa and Gion in five turns. With relocate orders, that's two more turns to reach Trax, and four turns from there to Jinga. So it will take at least eleven turns to return to Jinga, from the current situation.

HOWEVER... we do have active spies in the Alkari empire. Should we steal more tech BEFORE any of the new Gatling ships are built, a redesign should be done. If we steal nuclear engines (the most desired prize in this situation), add the new engine, add class 2 maneuvering, and reduce weaponry accordingly, with as many gatlings onboard as will fit, then whatever looks good in the leftover space. If we steal ECM II, that won't help a lot, but will reduce computer costs and may allow for replacing that nuke rack with another gatling, or some other similar deal.

The thing about designing ships is there are only six total slots. So if we field a lot of designs, we'll have to scrap older models to enable more upgrades. Right now, the original scout design could be scrapped, if desired.

Unless we steal Warp Two engine from the Alkari in the next couple of turns, Charis will not be able to see a winning combat move on his round, due to the unavailability of naval vessels. If nuclear engines are stolen in time, the Gatling ships would move faster and could reach Jinga on this round. Unfortunately, trying to guess around this unlikely but possible scenario is too risky to be betting the lives of troops. We would not want to send troops from Gorra too soon, only to have them all shot up and the navy arrive the next turn, a turn too late. Sending troops from closer systems might be a good possibility, though. If Charis does steal the engine tech, he could carry out an attack that plays on his turn. If not, at best can set up Jabah. Charis has the green light on any attack move he wants to try.



Whether or not it's worth sending troops from Gorra up to Spica is Charis's choice. There are also two LR Colony ships in flight to the south, due to arrive on his round, and Gorra might be the best supply point for populating them. We have some frigates down there for roughing up any Silicoid aggressors, so keep an eye on their fleet movements and try to respond accordingly if they make an aggressive move.

Here's the galaxy as it now stands.



Charis, you can also call off the Gatling construction if you decide not to try to make another push for Jinga. We could wait for armor upgrades, more weapons, etc, but keep in mind that Gatlings have a limited lifespan, so don't go half measure. Pick aggression or growth and prioritize it, would be my advice. Either can work.


Charis Ursan Takes Charge

Good luck.


- Sirian

 

[Charis]

Pound some dirt. Boots on the ground. Knock some heads. Mix it up.

<-- little birdie

Methinks there is a correlation between mama birdies moves and the roster order

They don't call 'em gambits for nothing That was very instructive indeed. I'm not sure I've ever even done a ground invasion, so that was a needed clinic. The spying was also hugely instructive, and far more profitable than I would have imagined.

We seemed to get a 3:2 kill ration on the invasion, so with 45 defenders, at the current technology level we need to have 31+ troops survive the gauntlet and make it to the planet in order to own it. It's rather interesting for the gropo race to mix it up with the fighter pilot race. Do we really stand a chance to outgun them and take control of the airspace? They had no bases in place last time, would I be correct in thinking next time they should have one or a few?

There's one thing I agree on, it's full bore or just snore. I'm not sure which path yet, I'll have to take a closer look at things
Is there any threat from the Silicoids or other neighboring race?

Charis

 

[Sirian]

It's rather interesting for the gropo race to mix it up with the fighter pilot race. Do we really stand a chance to outgun them and take control of the airspace?

Did they really stand a chance to beat us on the ground?

The answer to both is yes. Bring more dogs to the race, or equip your dog with the latest greatest Nikes.

Our class II shield and gatling lasers help give us an edge. For the moment. That balance will shift again, but the Gatling I designed should be the equal of the Alkari large ship OR BETTER, even factoring their defense bonus. They not only have to have the ships, they would have to have them in position. If you build two Gatlings, that may do the job. It may not. Might need four. If you send em and the numbers during combat aren't looking good, beat a retreat and live to come back with a larger fleet.

They will ship troops to the planet. It only had ten factories built, it's a decent interval away from building a base. If we keep up the pressure, they won't get a base stood up. If we pull back now, they might have the chance to entrench. Whatever planet they send troops from will suffer. They don't tend to pay heavy on eco to regrow pop, so having them shipping off colonists to the front lines to reinforce will weaken their core more than it will ours, since we won't leave our core planets with max factories on low pop for extended periods. Pay to regrow them, or ship some back from Gorra, or some other solution that minimizes idle factories.

They had no bases in place last time, would I be correct in thinking next time they should have one or a few?

Look at how long it will take Trax to build a base. That's FIVE TURNS to build ONE base with 63 fully utilized factories. So figure about 300 or so factory-turns. At their current level of 10 factories, if they spent max on base building it'd take approaching thirty turns to build a base. If they infuse the planet with reserve cash peeled off the core, it would still take 15 turns. And you can bet they aren't going max on base building. They're still trying to stand up factories.

The AI can surprise you with how much sooner it can stand up new bases, because it makes heavy use of taxation and redistribution of reserve money. But it does obey the same general rules mechanics on the economic side, so I'd bet at least twenty turns before we see a base appear there. Especially since I just killed off 70% of the population.


As for other threats... No threat from the Sakkra for the foreseeable future. The Silicoids have been fairly respectful of our blockades. They are the slowest growing race, the one who can least afford to throw away population trying to invade Bulrathi colonies. We could get aggressive with them, too, but you know the addages about two-front warfare. Build a couple of bases on our southern core colonies, especially at the artifacts planet, and that should contain the damage even if they attack. Last I checked, we had higher fleet strength than they do, and we've got bubkis for ships. You can keep an eye on their fleet bar on the graphs to see if that balance starts to change. I doubt it will during your round.

They don't call 'em gambits for nothing

I tend to play it safer with most races. For some reason, the Bulrathi inspire me to take big risks. That wasn't a move inconsistent with my general Bulrathi playstyle. Not in the least. Just that if I were doing it solo, then (just as with the early tech check on my last round) I wouldn't be bending to the SG structure. I'd have gone with a slightly stronger fleet than that and taken less risk. However, for these purposes, I almost welcome the mixed result I did get. More informative about figuring out how much strength is needed and how to evaluate for that.

Safe flight, lil birdie. And remember, it's not the fall that hurts, but the sudden stop at the end.

It ain't over until the fat chickadee sings. As long as you haven't actually impacted the ground yet, there's still time to beat those wings and catch the wind.


- Sirian

 

[Justus II]

Originally posted by Sirian

It ain't over until the fat chickadee sings. As long as you haven't actually impacted the ground yet, there's still time to beat those wings and catch the wind.

- Sirian

Just had to comment on the irony of that statement. Although it's generally a truism, Ground Combat in MOO is one area it doesn't quite apply to! Once the Marines are sent, they WILL impact the ground, or die trying, there's no wind to catch. That's why they are the deciding factor in timing an invasion: fleets can always retreat and be resent, but once the ground troops are committed, D-Day is set.

Fleets and troops in MOO reminds me of the moral of the bacon and egg breakfast. The chickens may be Dedicated, but the pig's Committed!

And whatever you do, don't bomb the colony out of existence while they are enroute, as they will then experience that Sudden Stop you mentioned earlier. (Not that I've had any recent experience with that.... )

 

[Charis]

Charis Ursan takes the world stage while yet but a regent, in the midst
of a situation that is tense. We're in a feud state with the Alkari, but not
(yet) an open war. We made a very bold attempt to wrest the planet Jinga from
them, and came up just a bit short. The big question is... go full bore after that
planet with the temporary edge of new gattling laser technology, or solidify our
position with Gorra and the other LR world to be colonized up by Spica.
Not even Charis' closest advisors know, but they look closely at the situation.

Two points strike me as odd. First, next to Jinga, is an *un*occupied Arid world.
To bypass that for Jinga is interesting. Second, there is an unexplored yellow star
up North. I look through the records to see if we know anything about this world.
I find nothing. Ah, a scout from Spica is due to head there.

I take a look at planets and population. We have two max pop/factory planets, and
the rest are building industry. There are two Gattling ships in production, which
seem like enough to match what they should have at Jinga.

The thing that impresses me about Jinga is that it's an ideal launchpad for the
Alkari, and a critical point defense for us. If we can hold it and stand up, the
Alkari can never hurt us. If we let them keep it, several of our other worlds are
in jeopardy. I favor continuing the theme, knowing that if I fail, well... the game
will take the flavor of 'impossible' and keep it interesting for our stronger players!

Assuming we want the mini-fleet to arrive the same turn as the troops, and they'll
take about 5-6 turns to get there, the timing will be off.

2370 - I want to know asap about the NE corner yellow star. A scout from Mu Delphi
to its SW can reach it one turn earlier than the scout planned from Spica,
so I divert the Spica scout to Mu and send a Mu scout to yellow, eta in 3.

I speed up the ship due at Ursa by one turn. To do the same at Gion I will need
a small bit of planetary reserve. I do this transfer. I put Imra above max on ind
to build up a few more reserves. It's hopefully not a huge setback, but will mean
I can have two Gattling ships on hand instead of 1 on the turn I want.

ETA for the invasion force to hit is turn 10. Where will troops come from, and how
far away are they?
- Imra 55/55 7 turns can spare 20 on turn 3
- Gorra 53/70 10 turns, could spare 15 *now*
- Argus 51/70 10 turns, could spare 15 *now*
- Trax 32/45 4 turns, could spare 10 on turn 6.
- Xudax and Spica are too small. Gienah is our artifact planet, not wise.
- Gion and Ursa are 6 away but we need all pop for ship production

I estimated we need 30 troops on the ground to land to take the colony. With some
margin for safety that would be 40 and if we account for 0-50% attrition in space,
we'll want to send 40-80 troops. I'm counting 40-50 above.

Is there any way to colonize Klystra (the arid green) and the long range NE this turn?
If the two ship planets build colonies next, yes. That then is the plan for this
reign, for better or worse, lots of people movement.

Charis Ursan must pull the trigger NOW and sends marines from Gorra and Argus.
Finally, I increase research at our artifact planet, and slow its base. It's way too
backline for my fears and a new tech in next 5 turns could be a huge break in the war.

2371 - zzz
2372 - Nothing on my turn, but IBT we scout Bootis the corner yellow star. Not bad,
a jungle 85. More important, our colony ship arrives at Dunatis and we found there,
a yellow Terran system, pop max 95, excellent.

In worse news though, we see an Alkari ship! It's a lone colony ship. I'm
not sure if it's armed, but it's heading for that green unclaimed planet east of
Jinga. This is *our* planet in my mind, and even if it's armed, we're going to
take that one as well as Jinga. Actually, we have a single Laser ship guarding
the system!

2373 - Marines take off from Imra! Ursa's ship is due next turn, and I micro the
ind slider to avoid wasting BC on the ship. For Gion to finish it's ship next turn,
I have to go into waste for 1 turn. It will get cleaned next turn, but we seem
to be just a few pennies short of making this critical ship show up next turn.

I'm concerned I'll end up short and look for extra reserve pennies. I find a few,
in an unexpected place. We want to scrap the original scout design, but we have two
of them. The ones we have are at our own planets, and so are not critical for blockades.
I scrap the design and take the few BC from those and thrown them at Gion. Presto,
the Gattling ship is due next turn! (Note, if it was NOT, now that I had an empty
slot, I was free to make a mini-Gattling design with one less gun and be sure it could
be ready next turn too.)

IBT - Excellent news...

** Our spies infiltrated an Alkari base ** My first steal!! We have FOUR choices to
us, Computer, Construction, Planetology, Production. I look over Sirians notes and see
that this could mean almost anything as far as infiltration level. I wish now I had
looked to see what tech they had (ok, that's a learning tip) The computer choice is
brand new, suggesting either a higher infiltration, or they learned a non-state-of
the art computer tech. With our ships due this turn, propulsion/Nuclear Engine
would be a turn late. I think that if we wanted the highest 'lvl' tech, I would
pick Computers, since it picks "up to" the infiltration level, and that field has
the highest 'lowest' tech. But it would probably be an ECM system that I'm not
fond of. The Propulsion one would be Nuclear Engines, nice, even if late. The
planetology would be some kind of terraforming. Construction would be... improved
tech. I think those fast engines will help us compete with these fighter pilots,
so I do choose the Propulsion field.

** We steal Nuclear Engines ** (Comments? Should I have gone for lvl 7 computer tech)

BTW, the Alkari colony ship is not heading for Trax. It's heading NE.

Finally, we found the desert planet of Rana 40.

2374 - I now get a report, here what was on the table:
Computers: ECM III and Improved Robotics III (gah, if I read Sirian's articles correctly,
this would be too soon and actually hurt our growth). Construction: Imp Tech 9 (minor)
Propulsion: nothing up on us, just the warp 2. Planetology Improved Terraform +10/+20.
I think looking at these, warp 2 was best.

BTW, we're down to 'Hate' from Feud and an ambassador is in place. Not for long!

Gattling ships are ready to leave from Ursa and Gion!!
These planets were going to start on LR Colony and Colony respectively, but
we now have a tiny window to try to build a few new warp 2 ships?
Gion and Ursa can make a Laser2 in one turn, with warp 2, one gattling, one laser,
and to soften the planet(?) one nuclear bomb. This is likely a bad design you'll
want to scrap, but let's see if it can help.

Imra sends 15 colonists to the new terran world Dunadis. Argus send 18 to Spica.
Xudax sends 16 to Rama. Some will take a while to get there, but this will get
every new world into the accelerated zone for growth.

IBT - Scout in nebula finds green star Moro as barren (hostile).
The Alkari ship is moving due north, lol, right toward the uninhabited green star
Two Laser2's are produced and autorouted to Trax.

2376 - Marines take off from Trax. There is now a coordinated flow of ships all
heading for Jinga! Two more Laser2's are produced. T-4 for assault, and so it's
time for troops from Trax itself to ship out. The Gattling duo and two Laser 2 join them.

Ursa and Gion both start a LR Colony ship now, due in 4. (One could have been a
normal colony ship, as it's just heading right next to Jinga, but my extra Laser2
has not left us with a free design right now.)

That's the end of prep, next four turns will I hope be coasters.

IBT - At Moro a Psilon colony ship enters the system and it's armed, so we retreat.
What are they doing way over there?

2377 - zzz. IBT - Silicoids 'attack' us at unclaimed Klystron. We have a single Laser1
there, and they have just a colony ship. Why not contest it? It just retreats.
I notice now, rather late, we have some sentinels down south, and laser ships. I can't
do anything with them on my turn, but I point them out so maybe our next ldr can.

2378 - The nuclear engines on my baby Laser2 ships enable two of them to leave
Trax now and make it in time (2 turns) for the festivities.

2379 - I MM Usra and Gion sliders to just finish their ships and put extra to research.
Nervously, I await as the "Charis Armada" is due to engulf Jinga this round!... IBT:

SPACE COMBAT TIME! They have one large ship, a Wareeagle 100hp, and 7 Medium Sky Hawks
with 18hp. We have our two gattlings and four laser2's. It's my first 'serious' space
combat so I can only hope I don't ruin this. I scan first. The large ship has a scanner,
3 Nuclear missiles and 7 hvy lasers, 1 small laser. No shields. The smaller ship has
2 hvy lasers, no shields, warp/manuever 1. We likewise have 100 and 18 hps, and seem
to have good chances here. First to move is our Gattling ships. We move our guys up,
hiding behind astro fields, and they move up as well. My plan is to focus ALL firepower
at the big ship first, and will let the laser2's draw first fire. But is there any
reason not to let them move to us? Do we not get some asteroid protection? Why run
in the open to eat their missiles? The planet has no bases. We wait...

This works well - they split their ships, large one north, small south, and our
greater speed lets us flank them. Our large ships trade a missile, then we assault
with all we have from their northern flank. We take it down to 17hp in the first
real round of combat, and blow it out of existence in the next round. Our Gattlings
still have 49hp!

By using the wait command, I move up with the Laser 2, shoot, AND move back before
their lil guy can shoot. Likewise my gattling gets TWO full shots in before they
can retaliate and the first round I cut their number from 7 to 3, and they back up.
We again get first shot, and they're wiped out. I must say, my Heroes of Might and
Magic expertise paid off here in spades! (After posting the save file I came back
and loaded this turn just to hit 'auto' and see what happened, and the computer
managed to lose one Gattling and most Laser2's?? Oh my! Important tip learned in this:
even if you lack confidence, run the show, don't let it do auto ???)

Total annihilation of the Alkari Air Force at Jinga, and now we are able to land the
full complement of Bear Marines!
They have 47 units and 19 factories. As suggested, I do NOT bomb.

We have 40-50 troops en route - almost a fair match. Except for 1 TINY little thing...
Remember I said I sent 50 colonists to Jinga? I lied! The thought of going this far
then failing by 10-15 units was something I couldn't stomach. So instead I stretched
out another 7 from Imra (27), 11 from Gorra (26), 5 from Argus (20), 5 from Trax (15),
and (gulp) 10 from Gienah, planning to repop those asap. It's a lot of shifting, but
it fit with the in-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound philosophy. Oh, I sent 10 more for
good measure from Gion back on turn 4. Shoot me, but I *really* want Jinga!
That's a total of 101 Bears!! How much better than 101 Dalmatians?! Hmm, it says 81.
Well, doh, now that I look at it, I forgot to send the 20 from Argus?! Argh!

Titanium and hand lasers on both sides, 81 Bears to 47 Birdies. We pound the ground.
Hit the dirt. Mix it up. When the dust settles, there are 57 Bear Marines still
standing, tall and proud, and there is no trace left of birds except for the
19 factories!

"We will follow you to the ends of the earth and rid the universe of the Bulthari
infestation (ambassador recalled)" Ha, come get some!

2380 - On another pleasant note, Argus just max'd factories, and is at 52 of 70 pop
since I forgot to send their marines. I see too now that the population is 51 max,
meaning that there was not enough room for 6 of the marines. I thought there was a
chance of that but ouch, it would have hurt pretty bad to lose an additional 20 from
the planned Argus shipment! Now THAT is a case of better lucky than good.

We're now officially at war, and trade has stopped. The silicoids have TWO single colony
ships heading somewhere, from just below Jinga. There are also a pair of fleets coming
in at Jinga. One is a single warbird (large) and one is a sky hawk (wimpy medium)
If they're heading for Jinga we will clean their clocks.

There's an LR Colony in Gion - send it where you like but I was thinking the yellow
NE system. The Ursa colony ship is auto-moving to Trax, where it can then continue
on to Klystrom I would think.

Jinga can put up a missile base in 7 turns, and I set it to do so. Consider even
throwing some reserve at it. Or if you prefer to make it stronger, go Industry.

Status shows that we gained on the Alkari on fleet strength after that battle,
are almost even in tech, are #1 in production (despite the choices we made that
slowed initial growth to go military) #1 population, #1 planets, and distinctly
#1 in overall power! Go Bears!

I'm delighted at how this turn went. It may not be perfect, and I really welcome any
comments on it, but I took the bold path and it went well, and the invasion plans
worked to a tee. Add in a stolen tech to boot, and the bears are in great shape!

Sirian
Charis
Jabah <-- UP, and here is The save for 2380
Justus II <-- ON DECk
Isit
Garath

Good luck to Jabah, he's got a hot war on his hand but also the task of
continued colonization and build up and research! Pardon my lack of pictures, but I
hope the story telling has compensated?!

Charis

 

[Justus II]

Way to go, Charis Ursan! Your deeds will be recorded in the annals of Bear-kind! Good job making the most of the Nuclear steal, to get some more firepower into the fight. You may have also (inadvertently?) hit on a little trick in ship design:

Gion and Ursa can make a Laser2 in one turn, with warp 2, one gattling, one laser, and to soften the planet(?) one nuclear bomb.

By using the wait command, I move up with the Laser 2, shoot, AND move back before their lil guy can shoot.

That bomb comes in handy! Normally, when any ship fires all it's weapons, it's turn is over, even if it has movement remaining. However, if it has unfired weapons (i.e., in this case that lone bomb), you still get the ability to use it's remaining movement after the attack. That's why it's often a good idea when you have a little space remaining on a gun design to throw in a small bomb (or a single missle, but then you have to manually toggle the missle off during combat to get the 'split-move' effect).

Important tip learned in this: even if you lack confidence, run the show, don't let it do auto ???

Yep, the auto feature is about as effective as automating workers in Civ! I only use it for fights where the AI is likely to retreat anyway, like when a lone colony ship arrives near my main fleet, and I don't want to waste the time to move all my ships first.

Great planning on getting the ground troops there, it's rarely a bad thing to send TOO MANY troops, as the extras just help get the new colony stood up that much quicker.

 

[Jabah]

quick 'got it', will play tonight .

Jabah

 

[Bam-Bam]

Originally posted by Justus II
That bomb comes in handy! Normally, when any ship fires all it's weapons, it's turn is over, even if it has movement remaining. However, if it has unfired weapons (i.e., in this case that lone bomb), you still get the ability to use it's remaining movement after the attack. That's why it's often a good idea when you have a little space remaining on a gun design to throw in a small bomb (or a single missle, but then you have to manually toggle the missle off during combat to get the 'split-move' effect).

Note that this trick only works when you are attacking a rival colony. Once you are defending or in neutral space (unclaimed world), the game will not retain movement because you have a bomb installed (nothing to bomb).

 

[Charis]

While I would like to say "yah! That's what I planned!" I in fact did not toggle the missile button off. I've seen mention of that but don't have a good understanding of bombs/missiles.

- If you don't hit the toggle, how do you fire missiles or bombs?
- If you do hit the toggle, how do you fire missiles or bombs?
I only see a green cursor on the target and no real choice about what I'm firing. If anyone has more detailed comments or a link on missiles, bombs, the missile toggle button, streaming, or other space combat tips, I would just love to hear them or get a link!

Nope, I toasted these guys on raw maneuverability and HOMM tactics alone. I would get to just beyond their laser range, then hit 'wait'. If they move up I fire and will get to move before he can return fire. If they sit still I move up and fire, and still get to move before he can return fire. Likewise, from a longer distance, I can wait behind an asteroid field, move up, fire missile, and pop back down before a lower initiative ship can go. This is why we had no casualties, and why the autoplay got smacked down - it send one stack after one enemy stack, and one stack against another, got to min range and just traded shots!

The Alkari obviously have warp 2, as we stole it from them, so expect newer ship designs after the ones currently in service to match us in maneuverability. That doesn't bode well for our Gattling1 design. What to scrap next btw? We have LR Colony (2), Scout 2 (many), Laser1 (7ish?), Laser2 (4), Gattling1 (2), Sentinel (2??). I'm not sure if the Laser2 design is anygood either, with that bomb on board. Due to their ability to do well with nimble small designs, fighting against the Alkari, wouldn't we be better off with larger ships?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but effective use of the 'wait' button seems to me to be one of the most powerful tactics one can use in space combat. (?!)

BTW, is spying normally this effective? I was surprised (happy!) to see it come up this round for me, and it's come up twice before? While we have the 'luxury' of a hot war, would it make sense to get a third spy in there? We're running 2 spies for 4% income now. We could afford another 4% and it would double our chances and improve penetration? Picking up some planetary techs, or getting any new propulsion/weapon/shield/computer techs would be a nice addition to our 'overall research effort'.

While I'm at it, I have one last comment. The SG nature of the game is manifesting itself here strongly. What do I mean by that? The opening of research fields to know what's up and to discuss colonization plans, and two turns back to back that had precisely 10 turn campaigns. Unlike civ3, it's easy to see 10 turns in advance precisely how many turns it will be until you attack a given star, AND the battle for the 'city' takes one turn, succeed or fail. You may re-try, but the units come in waves rather than sending a few knights ahead then trickling in reinforcements. (Well, good players will have mini-waves, but don't feel compelled to wait until there is a single SOD with everything you plan to use before attacking)

The need to commit far-away troops early sets the exact turn of an invasion. In this last turn, my furthest troops to send were exactly 10 turns away. In a solo game I would not have used reserves to get the ships ready on time. It was a small amount, but it made the difference between an invasion in 10 vs an invasion in 11. Note that if it was going to be 12 or 15, I would cheerfully setup the next player, but so close to 10 I didn't want to have things go south on Jabah's turn 1 since, unlike Civ3, those troops are *committed*, the next leader can do NOTHING to break off the attack. It's like a giant "go-to" that includes the first round of attacks with it! It's a double edged sword really, the hard part is that you really have to trust your teammates (and if you follow a n00b like me, eep!), and the good part is... you really have to trust your teammates! The limited number of design slots calls for coordination. And while you can 'veto' the build queue so to speak, you can't re-call ships in flight (til a later tech) and you can't wildly adjust the research/lux sliders

So three questions -
1) Any thoughts on how the go-to nature of invasions will impact a succession game, or how it should impact a player's turn?
2) How are you guys feeling about the turn length of 10 turns? (It's not bad, I think, and if it seems slow now, that's good, as it will balance the fact it seems long later)
3) How hard is the limit? I'm taking it as a hard 10, is that correct (tis the host's call, Sirian in this case)

Charis

 

[Justus II]

Originally posted by Charis
While I would like to say "yah! That's what I planned!" I in fact did not toggle the missile button off. I've seen mention of that but don't have a good understanding of bombs/missiles.

- If you don't hit the toggle, how do you fire missiles or bombs?
- If you do hit the toggle, how do you fire missiles or bombs?
I only see a green cursor on the target and no real choice about what I'm firing. If anyone has more detailed comments or a link on missiles, bombs, the missile toggle button, streaming, or other space combat tips, I would just love to hear them or get a link!

I don't have a good link, but I'll do my best to answer your questions. By default, in combat your ship is set to fire your weapons all at once, at whatever you have targeted with the cursor. They will get hit with everything on that ship (really, stack of ships, but during combat it is treated as one), with a few (important) restrictions. First, the weapons are fired by banks. When you design a ship, you can add up to 4 banks of weapons, with all weapons of a given bank being the same type. With smaller designs, normally that means each type gets it's own bank or slot. In combat, the game will fire each bank, in order, at the targetted ship, if that weapon can be used against that target. It then proceeds to the next bank and fires against the target. That's why sometimes you will see the ship fire multiple times. If those weapons cannot hit that target (due to range or type, like bombs vs. ships) they will not fire, and will 'wait' if there is another valid target in range for that weapon type.

This is where the bomb 'trick' comes in. If you have a bomb on board, AND there is a planet in that system (good point Bam-Bam, I forgot to mention that), AND you have movement remaining, the game will treat that as an automatic 'wait' after you have fired, so that you can then move to the planet and use the bombs. Whether you actually could reach the planet with your remaining movement is irrelevant, just that you have some movement remaining. This allows for the dart in-fire-dart out tactics. Even if you have used all your movement, if you ARE adjacent to the planet, you will get the opportunity to fire your normal weapons at another target, and it will still wait for you to target the planet with bombs.

A missile can give you a similar effect, by making use of the MISSILE toggle switch. By default, missles are "on", and when you target someone, you fire all your beam weapons as well as launching missiles at them. However, the toggle allows you to target the missiles at another target (such as bases) while firing at ships. When you hit the MISSILE button, you disable missiles. When you fire, all beam-type weapons will fire at the target, but then you will be in "wait" status, and can re-enable the missiles to target someone else. You can also use this pause to take advantage of your remaining movement.

How do the banks play into all this? The other important restriction is that normally, all fire is directed at a single target, and any damage beyond what is required to destroy it is wasted. However, it fires one bank at a time, and if the firepower of one bank completely destroys the target (the whole stack), then you will be given the opportunity to choose another target for your remaining weapon banks, to include using any remaining movement. On smaller ships, it's not as big of a deal, as you have few weapons to divide across banks, but as you get larger ships, and have multiple weapons of the same type, it is sometimes useful to divide them into 2 or more banks. For example, if we had a ship with 8 Gatlings, it might be better to put 4 Gatlings in the first bank (slot), then select 4 Gatlings for the second bank, then maybe a small missile or bomb if there is room. This way, if we are able to finish off a crippled enemy with only a few shots, we will only waste the fire from the first bank, and can then move and target someone else with our remaining firepower. It's not a game-breaker, but it comes in handy sometimes.

There is a similar effect with weapons of different ranges as well, if you have mostly Heavy lasers (range 2) for example, and a bank of range 1 Lasers, you can fire at one target at range 2, them move, since you haven't fired the Range 1 lasers yet, and target someone else.

Well, I hope that answers the questions, without causing even more confusion, it just shows there are some more intricacies to ship design if you want them!

 

[Sirian]

Bravo, Charis Ursan! :jump: That was superbly executed.

I really don't have much to say. Lil birdie is off and flying. Go birdie go! Whee! Told you it would be fun. Now to attend to the rest of our nest.

The propulsion vs computer choice on the espionage was a bona fide choice to be made, not a no brainer, and I have no problem with the choice you chose. You correctly identified the immediate benefit to our war effort and chose the most valuable option to that end. The computer choice would have been valid also, helping our espionage significantly (improving odds of further theft and gaining advances in our weakest field).

We're past the point at which it would be crippling to learn Robotics III. It would slow our poor worlds and our latest colonies, but our core are all maxed out on factories, so the total net effect would balance. We are, in fact, researching Robotics III ourselves, and we do have Industrial Tech 8 which helps significantly.

Espionage DOES offer some major rewards. I tend to play a bit looser with it on lower difficulty because I fear the consequences of ticking off these AI's a bit less. On their best day, they're not going to rise to the level of that ruthless bastid from Kitten Kaboodle who brushed me off, saying, "Yes, the young of the Meklar also throw tantrums," when I protested his smashing half my empire's core with an iron fist.

Your HOMM combat experience is indeed an asset. You fully understand the battlefield tactics, the group dynamics, the initiative system, the range effects, etc. (Note another reason I thought you would get up to speed fairly quickly. This game is not hard to learn. Mastering it takes a bit more. But you already understood the combat engine). No heroes, of course, but that's a GOOD thing, IMHO. Strategy turns on your units, which you get to customize, rather than on your heroes, which in HOMM is all that you get to customize. Researching through a tech tree that increases performance options for designing ships is a gameplay element I prefer over the "experience" system for heroes, and the choices of which spells to buy. Note that HOMM has some variability to spell availability, though, which is somewhat akin to variable tech trees in MOO.

The one question I have is, did you redesign the LR Colony with a warp two engine? If not...

I believe at one point there, all our existing colony ships had arrived and settled, so a chance to scrap that design and replace with the faster variety. If you did that, bravo!


Anyhow, you've significantly exceeded my expectations. You made a superbly coordinated multisystem assault, adapting both the gropo forces and the naval forces in effective ways. You've cleaned their clocks in the space combat, took no losses, and established clear naval dominance in orbit over Jinga, giving us an almost certain opportunity to secure that planet and establish it as our forward base. I hope that was as much fun for you as it was for all of us to read!

It will be interesting to learn where Team Two stands at a similar point in their game. Zed might surprise me, or someone else on the team might make an aggressive move, but I would anticipate that if Zed is leading the planning, that aggression would wait for "tech level 12 to 15" where he reports usually moving for the first time to an aggressive stance.

The chief danger of spying too much is ticking off too many rivals at one time. The game can be lost on the vote if everybody hates you. (Final War is an option if playing below your skill level, but not much of one if playing AT your skill level. Sort of like Always War in how it pumps up the challenge factor).

The size 51 planet at Jinga is actually a size 45 with 6 units of terraforming improvement in place by the Alkari. If we learn +10, only +4 more would be available at Jinga, etc. That is, we can benefit from levels of terraforming another race has enacted, but we cannot build on it unless we have sufficient tech to do so.

As for which designs to scrap if we need more room, that choice should be made at the time, based on position of existing ships, numbers, and threat levels. Killing the Scout 2 ships now could be very bad, giving the Silicoids, who are currently blocked, free access to several worlds on our southern border, including a rich radiated. Obviously, we don't want to scrap anything holding the line at Jinga. Ships should be built with a specific mission in mind. If we've got enough to hold at Jinga, and enough to deter down at Xudax, then perhaps we should focus on butter and books, rather than guns, for the next period. The Alkari probably DO have bases stood up on the next world in their chain, and none of our forces are strong enough to deal with that, right now. We're more geared for brush wars.

In fact, at this point, making peace with the Alkari might not be the worst idea. We've achieved our objective. Or maybe wait for the incoming Alkari ships to show up, get tagged, and THEN try to make peace. Or we can stay at war and let them come calling for peace, which would more likely hold up for a longer term.


As for espionage...

Since we can already penetrate to their high level techs, more spending is probably not called for. The number of spies we have currently is NOT based on the funding level. Instead, funding pays for spy networks, with each additional network costing more. But the enemy is always trying to find and eliminate spies, and it will do so with success from time to time. As soon as a spy is wiped out, our "current" total drops and so does the price to "add a spy to the current total". So the funding level tends to determine the maximum number, as it sets how quickly lost spy networks are replaced. It also increases likelihood of funding more networks before the next "security sweep" where the AI spends heavily for one turn on getting rid of any spies. AI security sweeps tend to happen at intervals, with your best hope for spying success coming when you've built up several spies, right before a sweep will hit. But then, there is ALWAYS the chance that each spy could roll unlucky and be found, interrogated, and broken, revealing all other spies and "cleaning house". So sometimes you end up working against yourself to spend too much on spying. More is not always better.

I've got a high level of spending already in place. Note that we're bringing in stolen tech faster than you see in my various spot reports from Impossible games. Most of those have about 4% spending split between all parties, and have often seen me doing no spying at all because there's not enough reward on the table to justify the risks.

Since we're already at war with the Alkari and do not currently fear them in any capacity, continuing to try to leech off them at the current rate might be a good plan. They still have plenty we could grab of use, especially another computer tech and a terraforming, for which we're hurting.


All hail Charis Ursan, vice marshall and marines champion. [plasma]

A holiday is called in honor of his successful campaign at Jinga.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

As far as turn length, yeah, a firm 10 turns for this game. Other games could be run with softer limits, but with the purpose of this game being to explore and learn, as much as to win, passing off to a teammate and setting up a teammate rather than running overtime to "finish it yourself" seem more appropriate.

Curious players can go back, after the fact, when the playing is done, and play out or experiment with different choices, or play parts for themselves that they only got to spectate during the SG.


- Sirian

 

[Charis]

Grazi for the kind words!

I was glad to see the good tip:

The one question I have is, did you redesign the LR Colony with a warp two engine? If not...

Phew, it's really Sirian, not an imposter! Oddly, it didn't even occur to me to do so. Tunnel vision - I saw the warp 2 as needed for the military but had in my mind pre-programmed my task with the colony ships, and didn't redesign. One will reach its target very soon but the other... it's a good 10-11 turns off.

In fact, given the time involved in the trip and the maintainance cost, we would possibly be better off by letting the very close one land and then immediately scrap the LR Colony ship. We would get back 1/2 the cost, build a redesigned new one in a few turns, and still beat the original one to the far away star.

Definitely let the piddly incoming Alkari enter Jinga space and get blasted first, but after that taking peace and pushing infrastructure would probably be a very good path to take. We'll get to see a bit of Jabah's preferences and aggressiveness in how this decision gets made.

And yes, that turn was truly a blast to play!
I'm glad you pushed on the birdie, I would never have chosen to fly so soon otherwise,
Charis

 

[Sirian]

Phew, it's really Sirian, not an imposter!

we would possibly be better off by letting the very close one land and then immediately scrap the LR Colony ship.

No. We only get back a quarter of the value. That's kinda sort LIKE getting back half the value and socking it away into reserve, since putting money into reserve costs money itself. For every two spent, one appears in reserve. If you add that up and then use the money for strategic purposes, it may have extra value. so that it's like getting back up to half the ship value. But to turn it right around and apply to another colony ship... No. In that case, there's no benefit to having socked it into reserve and we'd only see the actual "four spent, one put back into play" effect.

No, don't scrap those ships! Just put up with the delay. There are some unhappy ursines onboard, wondering how their "brand new colony ship" is packing 2360's engine technology but nobody's going to know about their upset for years to come, because we don't happen to have hyperspace communications.

It's not a big deal. One nit out of a whole round where Charis made choice after choice and strung together a series of creative moves and achieved a simply smashing military success... Still an A+ performance.

Definitely let the piddly incoming Alkari enter Jinga space and get blasted first

That's the spirit!


- Sirian

 

[Justus II]

Regarding the ship-scrapping, I would recommend scrapping the Sentinel. We only have 2, and they are at Xudax, which already has 7 Laser-1s for defense. That slot would then be free for some new ships. I don't see any other worlds worth colonizing right away, so I wouldn't worry about Colony-2's, but I would build some Scout-2's/Fast Scouts to replace our warp 1 versions. There are plenty of systems that could still be scouted to the S and NW, and it's always a good idea to keep pushing out and expanding our knowledge base. Our current scouts could remain where they are as blockers, or be scrapped once they are replaced by Laser-2's or something else. Also, any of our colonies that have bases stood up no longer need a scout to chase off enemy scouts, as a base will prevent them from remaining in orbit and scanning the planet.

 

[Jabah]

Sorry for the quite unfriendly report but between finishing work late and packing for going away for a 3 days weekend, I did my best to play but not to right...


Here we go...



Pre-turn

Have to do a little scout dance as the 2 most 'southern' systems are within range and I can't find references to those being scouted. There seems to be a terran system with no colony in the NW, send a (spare) scout to check and blocade if ever it is.

LR colony set to the NE Jungle Bootis in 8t at warp1 speed

Diplo check, we want either Computer or Planet tech from the Alkaris, since they have 2 'extra' in each while they only have old tech (construction) or no tech in other field.
Try an audience with Silic. but no effect.

Check Tech
Planetology is already at 16%, reduce it to increas weapon (ion should be much better than laser). Reduce a little bit Propulsion (stabilizer) for Construction (durraloy) to try to have them more or less 'at the same time'
We will have several nice tech to boost our fleet (armor, stabilizer, ion...) but we will need the 3 before designing our new warship (or an emergency!).

Back to our empire.

For fleet building, no ship are now really optimum, Gatling are speed1 and Laser2 have a bomb instead of better shield (and are small). The other have speed1 and 0shield.
Speed might be more important with our long border, so Laser2 is the one we will manufacture.
---> in fact the three ship building planets are set to research to speed the new design.

Press enter

IT Alkaris attack Jinga with 1 warbird + 1skyhawk -> destroyed with no casualty.


2381 (1) nothing

IT We get Tundra colony, get the choice between Inferno and Clean5, I hate the fact that you have to relie on your memory regarding the surrounding system. Checking the forum, there seems to be at least 1 inferno around but I decide for the cleaning tech that will be usefull on all our planet.
(checking after there was a inferno size40 and a toxic size20 to gain)

2382 (2) There is a 'falcon' coming at us...
send the 2nd LR colony from Trax to Kystron

IT nothing, the falcon is going further (at speed 2 at least)

2383 (3) nothing

IT Discover the Duralloy, only choice, reduce waste60%

2384 (4) 1spy hiding in the Silic, they have some nice tech : Shield3, Range6, Rocket5

IT A spy in Alkari manages a small steal (planet only choice) : Terraform+10, nice anyway
Colonise the UPoor Arid size 65 Klystron next to Jinga.

2385 (5) Set all decent planet (full grown) to Terraform in 1t or max

IT nothing

2386 (6) Regrow the industry in terraformed planet, send a few colonist to new colony (forget last turn).
The falcon reappears heading toward Xudax and its 7 laser1 waiting.

IT Discover Ion Cannon, we have a choice between 4 techs: anti-missile, Ion rifle, Mass Driver and Merculite. We go for the Missile as our base are not very frightening now.
Scout explore hostile toundra in the far south.

2387 (7) The falcon went over Xumax an continue toward the toxic or radiated system further ?

IT in the NW our scout reach Rotan and this is a Sakkra Colony now (terran poor), no base but a 'spectre' defending -> retreat
The 'falcon' arrived at Tauri - toxic hostile s20 - retreat our scout, but I forget that we had 2 'sentinel' as well. Combat Falcon has a tactical move of 1 only, 1 missile (2 missed) and heavy laser(s), go for contact and we manage to win without loss.
Discover Inertiel Stabilisator, range7 only available
Colonise Bootis, Jungle 80 in the NE corner.
Scout another Rich Inferno in the SE corner.

2388 (8) Jinga gonna be hot next turn, 4colonies, 14 falcon and 42 sparrow arriving, we have 1 base, 2 gatling and 4 laser2 there.
Time to build a new warship, scratch the colony design and let me introduce 'Air Superiority 2', top of techno (well except antimissile), but a little pricey.



Wish I had another spot to do a smaller version...

IT Attack at Jinga ... Scanner reveals
Colony : 3Hv Laser
Falcon : 1 nuclear Msl, 1Hv Laser, shield1
Sparrow : 1 laser
Lose the fleet killing all the sparrow and 1 falcon (shield+bird defence = laser is almost useless)
base is taking between 1and3 per turn while sending a missile to the falcons (or Colony later as the falcon seems to avoid them too easily), tense...
It is a draw while the base is at 11/75 and manage to kill a great total of 2falcon, bird+shield= trouble


2389 (9) the bird are retreating... and we have a empty spot for medium ship (in fact 2)
choice for 'Ion2' is the same but medium with only 2 normal Ion+stabiliser or 3 normal Ion, I choose the first but can be veto (no buiolding yet as 2 techs are coming that might decrease price)

IT
Discover Robotic3 choice between Jammer 2or 3 and Computer 3or4 -> Comp4 (Comp3, cheaper might have been better as we still are on Comp1?)
and Perso Shiel, choice between Shield4 or planet Shield5 -> planet5 (for base)
Meet Psilion in the SW

2390 (10) Trade max (325Bc) with Psilion, they have some usefull tech to change (Comp2, drive3 and rocket5 to name the best) but will let the next leader and the council decide.



Notes for next leader.
- I have done nothing on the 10th turn, factories need to be refitted (apparently) so we have to decide between that and ship building
- The alkaris rule the sky (for now) but they don't know how to land and break a base in time. Hope they don't know how to fight on the ground.
- trade with Psilion might be good for info they want Factory3 for drive3 and Tundra (or other old tech) for Comp2), not sure about giving factory but our ship could have a better computer
- not completely sure I choose the right tech every time...

- I am away for 3 days, but will read all the comments when back.

Jabah

The SAVE

 

[Sirian]

- not completely sure I choose the right tech every time...

No, that was great. The weapon tech choice is particularly important. We just got a new gun (and already spent two projects on beam weapons) so the mass driver would not have been good. We already have Hand Laser so Ion Rifle not a major boost. The anti-missile rockets are space hogs and useful chiefly for going full-bore ruthless on early planetary assaults, into the teeth of enemy bases -- not something I can remember ever deciding to do as an optimal choice, but only "to see what happens". Meanwhile we haven't had a missile upgrade, and jumping from 4 dmg per shot to 10, especially considering enemy shields, will be very important.

Good thing Charis stood up a missile base at Jinga! That saved the day, and apparently, also needed the help of the fleet that Jabah used. Closer call than we'd have liked, but nevertheless a victory. Draws go to the defender, as attackers are forced out.


Everything else sounds good, too. DO NOT trade away robotics controls, though. Or reduced waste, or other economic techs. Unless you're sure you're getting a stellar value that is worth more to us than we give out.

I'm glad we stole a terraforming tech. We're getting our value out of those spies!


One important issue with that ship design with the ion cannons. It's a fine design in every way except one: lacking a battle scanner. Against the Alkari IN PARTICULAR, every level of attack rating is precious. Since we're still stuck on Mark I for the moment, pending theft, research or other acquisition, that extra level available with a scanner is priceless. Should have left off a gun, even two, to add a scanner. More damage would be done to the Alkari by doing so. And as their propulsion tech climbs, well, you get the idea.

Please make sure any new designs max our attack rating. Probably best to stick with large class ships for that reason. Interesting that the Alkari came back with small ships, and that our missile base was ineffective in shooting them down quickly.

We should prioritize factory construction in the core. We've got to refit existing factories plus build new ones at a higher price, so it will actually more than double the cost it took to build 200, to get to 300. (200 @ 1x = 200x a normal factory price. 300 @ 1.5x = 450x a normal factory price, thus going from 200 to 450 is more than doubling the total cost). However it's worth it anyway, so stick with it.

We may want to go "priority research" (half our budget) into Battle Computer Mark IV when the factories level off. Remember to keep a few ticks (at least) in research so existing progress does not decay. I would also prioritize bases on the frontier. No use having more factories if the Alkari retake the system!

Also a nice job on getting the terraforming boost handled. That has surely already helped us significantly. Perhaps now that we beat back the Alkari fleet (the real one), we should offer peace?

Oh, and maybe grab the tundra planet?


Justus, you're up. Lead us through interesting times.


- Sirian

 

[Justus II]

Got it, I was actually looking over the save, then came back here to see Sirian's post. I'm definitely in favor of taking an "Operational Pause" and seeing if we can get peace from the Alkari to buy time for a major factory retooling. In the long run we will come out well ahead, and I see very little short-term to gain from continuing the war, we have achieved our limited objectives. I would be content with building some bases, probably a newer warp-2 scout, and see if we can get a new Battle computer at least before building more ships.

On the tech front, I think the trade for computer Mk II is worth it, giving up Tundra won't kill us, especially if we can quickly get a Colony 2 Tundra ship headed south before they can get there (I think we can). I don't think I've ever seen the AI build faster than warp 1 colony ships. Whereas Mark II fills a critical gap if one of our neighbors isn't kind enough to wait for us to get Mark IV. I definitely agree with Sirian about Robotics, though, the last thing we want is to accelerate the Psilon's growth curve.

Regarding the costs of the Robotics upgrade. I made a post over at Realms Beyond regarding my "theory" of how the costs are calculated, but was only partially right. My original post is here , and my new thread with conclusions is Here.

Basically, Sirian is right in that Robotics results in an immediate increase in the price of all factories to 1.5*base, and you will also have to pay to refit exisiting factories, but the refit comes due sooner than you think (or at least sooner than I would have thought). In our case, with several colonies at or near max, we will benefit from it, but it does show it can be a real hinderance if gotten too early.

I won't probably get to play until late tonight/early tomorrow morning, I'm on a wierd schedule these past couple weeks, so any suggestions/comments are welcome!