Ottoman

[phantomaxl1207]

Yes, That's what Banks are for

 

[neo_arcadia]

Yes. My massive Janissary-bought army did not give extra science. You must build it.

On another note, what promotion you guys use for Janissary? The first time I played as Ottoman I did not realize that Janissary have march promotion. My mind quickly tells me to spam Janissary and couple of siege engine with ONE melee unit to capture city. To help front-line Janissary, I gave medic promotion every one of them; no variety in promotion whatsoever, only medic 1 and 2. Apparently it goes very well until Lancer shows up which decimates my front line quickly.

 

[doublex55]

There is no way u can keep 10-15 ranged units alive with only 1 melee unit.

 

[neo_arcadia]

I do not employ any melee unit in the front line to soak damage, instead I use full army of Janissary with medic 1 and 2. Damaged unit will be moved back, switched with healthy one. Because of march promotion I successfully employ this tactics BEFORE opponent Lancer comes in play. Their CS is too big for my Janissary army to take so that they die in one strike of Lancer. Also, because of their 4 movement point instead of 2 like normal infantry, they are always out of range of Janissary. Knights never successfully penetrates my Janissary line because their CS is not too big of an issue. This particular tactic give me plenty of cities to capture when attacking civ in the same technology level because Janissary comes earlier. That's what I experienced.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Well Gunpowder also unlocks Tercios and Cannons which is makes so good for Ottomans.

If your plan is to just spam Janis also watch out for Conquistadors,which have 30CS.

You could get away with only having one-third of the Janis having Medic promotions provided you spread them out. Cause Medic doesn't stack beyond 2.

As for Cannons I alternate between Siege and Field cause both Splash and Range are good.

 

[neo_arcadia]

Yea. That is also something that comes on my mind. This tactics will be somewhat different when I see conquistador, impi, or, God forbid, cataphract as potential neighbor.

 

[arnoldlcl]

Does the Ottoman UA scale with game speed?

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I don't know, but you can try it out for yourself by playing a quicker or a longer game with the Ottomans.

 

[infidel88]

Does the Ottoman UA scale with game speed?

Of course it does.

 

[JIR]

Since the ottomans got the short end of the stick with the new trade route changes, it feels like they'll probably need to get the UA adjusted. I was thinking since there are a lot of bonuses with external trade routes (culture & science, diplomatic bonuses, tourism) and civs that focus mainly on external trade routes (morocco, portugal, carthage, etc.) it'd be cool to have a civ that focuses on internal trade routes and makes them interesting to work with. Works well for the ottomans as an expansive warmonger civ to help keep up with infrastructure and happiness. let me know what y'all think.

UA: Tanzimat
internal trade routes provide gold and culture (food trade routes) or gold and science (production trade routes). the destination city also receives -25% to unhappiness from needs (up to -75%)

so you can send some trade routes when you want to produce an army at your city without worrying about infrastructure, which also provides science through your UB, then once you've conquered some new cities, you send your trade routes out towards those cities to get unhappiness under control while you fix up the infrastructure in the new cities.

 

[pineappledan]

I like the idea of Tanzimat affecting happiness in some way, since Tanzimat was a campaign to foster integration and equality in the empire (as a means of stamping out nationalism). A -25% modifier would be excessive though.

What about this:
UA: Tanzimat

• Completing a Trade Route grants +150 Science, Production and Food to the origin City if international, or Culture and and Gold if internal. Bonuses scale with era
• -5% on all Needs Modifiers (boredom/illiteracy/poverty/crime/religious unrest) to the target city of an internal trade route.
• War Weariness is reduced by 5% for every active internal trade route.

Yields for ottoman UA as described in (1) are identical to the current iteration of Tanzimat. The UA rewards external trade routes with more kinds of yields, and rewards internal routes with happiness. You would then switch between internal/external depending on how happy your empire is

The numbers on the trade route completion bonus could be reduced to 100 of each to compensate perhaps. The added complexity and danger of external trade routes, combined with the lower yields, encouraging risky distant routes means that this UA might have been hit hard enough already that adding to the existing bonus might be fine

I haven't heard any evidence-based complaints regarding the Ottomans since the patch. I think most civs are struggling equally. If someone comes along and @Gazebo's tests prove that the Ottomans are hurting then something like this proposal might be in the back pocket.

 

[Gazebo]

Since the ottomans got the short end of the stick with the new trade route changes, it feels like they'll probably need to get the UA adjusted. I was thinking since there are a lot of bonuses with external trade routes (culture & science, diplomatic bonuses, tourism) and civs that focus mainly on external trade routes (morocco, portugal, carthage, etc.) it'd be cool to have a civ that focuses on internal trade routes and makes them interesting to work with. Works well for the ottomans as an expansive warmonger civ to help keep up with infrastructure and happiness. let me know what y'all think.

UA: Tanzimat
internal trade routes provide gold and culture (food trade routes) or gold and science (production trade routes). the destination city also receives -25% to unhappiness from needs (up to -75%)

so you can send some trade routes when you want to produce an army at your city without worrying about infrastructure, which also provides science through your UB, then once you've conquered some new cities, you send your trade routes out towards those cities to get unhappiness under control while you fix up the infrastructure in the new cities.

The Ottomans already benefit from internal trade routes.

G

 

[bigcat88]

New changes when most units are now are produced by cities, buffs Ottomans UB too much. Decreasing bonus from 20% of science to 10-15% will be a good change, imho.

 

[Gazebo]

New changes when most units are now are produced by cities, buffs Ottomans UB too much. Decreasing bonus from 20% of science to 10-15% will be a good change, imho.

They've been hit by TR stuff. They're doing fine.


G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I do not employ any melee unit in the front line to soak damage, instead I use full army of Janissary with medic 1 and 2. Damaged unit will be moved back, switched with healthy one. Because of march promotion I successfully employ this tactics BEFORE opponent Lancer comes in play. Their CS is too big for my Janissary army to take so that they die in one strike of Lancer. Also, because of their 4 movement point instead of 2 like normal infantry, they are always out of range of Janissary. Knights never successfully penetrates my Janissary line because their CS is not too big of an issue. This particular tactic give me plenty of cities to capture when attacking civ in the same technology level because Janissary comes earlier. That's what I experienced.

Sweden licks their lips on the approach.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Conqs can break through a line of Janis as well

 

[BiteInTheMark]

After the adjustments to trade routes, not beeing plundered automatically plundered at war and the option to see the the length from trade routes, the ottoman UA seems a bit op.
In most cases the difference in yields from trade routes are not that big (especially early game). This enable you to pick the shortest trade route to get the most yields from it.

In my games I rarely pick trade routes which need more than 30 turns, even in non-ottoman games.
Often I can pick routes with only 24 or 20 turns. Effectifly gives me up to 22.5 yields for external or 15 yields for internal routes per turn. This is huge in comparison to 10 (I dont count GP points for Admirals or Generals) yields by portugal or 6 by marokko. Even with playing assyria and their science benefits, my mate in MP was able to research as fast as I could, cause of the huge science benefits from his UA and the huge science catchup mechanic from traderoutes.

I would like to see the yields balanced down (from 15) to 12 for external and 9 for internal trade routes.
Or maybe change the marrocco ability to +1 GP point for every GP type you are already gaining GP points in your capitol, increased by every unique traderoute partner.

 

[chicorbeef]

So the Ottomans have a UA based on maintaining peace with your neighbours and trading with them, while their UB/UU are based on war and the Janissaries are almost too amazing to be ignored.

How do you balance this? Do you switch to internal routes/CS routes as Gunpowder approaches? Would you wait until TRs to your neighbour are finished before DoW'ing them, or just say screw it and rush them immediately?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

On the contrary, I tend to befriend CSs as I would like to think they can't backstab me, just be bought out . Peaceful until you acquire the means of defeating your enemies. Your TRs can burn while you the time for attack is far more urgent.

During Medieval, I prioritize external as I head towards Gunpowder. Math and Physics can also be good techs to consider for attacking. Math may be to early, was good when Statue of Zeus still gave Forge. Siege Foundry lets you build an army w/o falling to far behind on Science. For Physics you have Heavy Skirmishers and Trebuchets to attack. Beware Knights as they can push back your Skirmishers. You may or may not need Steel, thought you should pick it up incase you do. Swords and Spears are needed to hold the line.

 

[hr_oskar]

Personally I find that internal and CS routes are the most reliable no matter what civ you play. Even the AI civs you expect to be peaceful will backstab you when you least expect it.

I've never played the Ottomans but on paper they seem like a damn fine and versatile civ with all three uniques being very strong. Also the AI Ottomans are nearly always scary and very often runaways in my games (together with China); so just playing the Ottomans makes things easier by removing one strong AI from the pool.