croxis
Chat room op
Anyone good at crunching civ numbers?
Our Start
- Thread starter Black_Hole
- Start date
robboo
Deity
what ever we do..we need to do it quick. The save is one team from us.
I will do a listing of the tiles covered by all three and post back here. Its going to take me a while...but it will be up soon.
I will do a listing of the tiles covered by all three and post back here. Its going to take me a while...but it will be up soon.
robboo
Deity
triple post
robboo
Deity
triple post
robboo
Deity
city site analysis...
green is the plains site(west), red (settle in place) adn blue( east) on the plains with river.
I removed all the common tiles between the cities. These were..2 coastal clams, 4 coastals, 1 plain w/ river, 1 plains, 2 grss with rivier, 1 silk, 1 forest grassland, 1 sheep plains hills
That leaves...to decide based on this.
Blue(east) 2 coastal, 1 unknown(coastal?), 1 plains, 1 grass w/ river, 1 forested hill, 1 plains hill
red ....1 coastal, 1 grass hills, 1 plains, 2 silk forest grass, 1 forest plains hils, 1 grass
green... 1 grass hill, 1 grass/river, 2 silk forest grass, 1 plains hill, 2 grass.
Someone else want to play with hammer, food and commerce..my eyes are killing me.(double checked and numbers are right ..I think)
green is the plains site(west), red (settle in place) adn blue( east) on the plains with river.
I removed all the common tiles between the cities. These were..2 coastal clams, 4 coastals, 1 plain w/ river, 1 plains, 2 grss with rivier, 1 silk, 1 forest grassland, 1 sheep plains hills
That leaves...to decide based on this.
Blue(east) 2 coastal, 1 unknown(coastal?), 1 plains, 1 grass w/ river, 1 forested hill, 1 plains hill
red ....1 coastal, 1 grass hills, 1 plains, 2 silk forest grass, 1 forest plains hils, 1 grass
green... 1 grass hill, 1 grass/river, 2 silk forest grass, 1 plains hill, 2 grass.
Someone else want to play with hammer, food and commerce..my eyes are killing me.(double checked and numbers are right ..I think)
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I also think that there was a suggestion to move SW.
ybbor
Will not change his avata
robboo said:
completely unimproved:
blue :
:6 
:6 
:7.red :
: 9 :7 :4green:
:11 :5 :3remember, this is unimproved
double checked with simulations in the worldbuilder
robboo
Deity
awwwww man....someone else do it. I can this morning..classical_hero said:
classical_hero
In whom I trust
You are our Domestic minister and as such that is your job. 
robboo
Deity
yeah I just didnt have the time at the moment...I was busy watching a little bike race...man what a race.classical_hero said:You are our Domestic minister and as such that is your job.
Well since I am the minister... cant I just do what I want any way.
I will have it done with in an hour or 2. I need to go ride off the energy from the race. To me Blue is the best one..we will have more than enough food and those hammer and gold make it the best city as a capital because of beuacracy.
robboo
Deity
update...we need to make sure whereever we move we have sea access. Otherwise we cant use the clams till we get another coastal city. This handcuffs our early growth. Therefore I think the three previous posted sites.are the only one we should think about. Remember the one "given" in civ is a food resource in you captial and no desert in its fat cross if you settler in place. We dont want to move and put our food resource in danger of not helping early growth
Here is a map with the dots...where else do you want me to check. I think blue is best. And I will put that as my official recommendation unless someone tells me there is somethign wrong with it.
yes I know sheep are food...but they will only yield 3 so...2 sets of clams...give 8 or 10 with an lighthouse. Remember what Sirian said about the maps so we need to use every last resource to its maximum advantage.
Here is a map with the dots...where else do you want me to check. I think blue is best. And I will put that as my official recommendation unless someone tells me there is somethign wrong with it.
yes I know sheep are food...but they will only yield 3 so...2 sets of clams...give 8 or 10 with an lighthouse. Remember what Sirian said about the maps so we need to use every last resource to its maximum advantage.
robboo
Deity
green will be a low production city compared to blue. We will get those resources with another city or even expansion of borders. Silks are OK but the tiles will only be 2/0/3...not that great of a help.
Blue is better in commerce also..my call is still blue
We look to be kinda tight on space so lets try to use it.
Blue is better in commerce also..my call is still blue
We look to be kinda tight on space so lets try to use it.
i dont see your reasoning behind the production, green will still have 3 hills, same as blue(yes one is a grassland so 1 less hammer). i dont mean just 'getting' the resources either, i mean cottaging them. putting our capital blue would also increase the distance from it to our next city which will undoubtably be west. Green means less maintenance for future cities.
Your going to need to explain to me why blue is better for commerce.
Green has 3 silk tiles to cottage, 3 other river tiles to cottage, the sea tiles only give +2 commerce but it still has the 2 clams. I just cant wrap my head around just why blue has greater commerce though i'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Blue has the same amount of forests to chop, red has more. Red would give +3 health.
Your going to need to explain to me why blue is better for commerce.
Green has 3 silk tiles to cottage, 3 other river tiles to cottage, the sea tiles only give +2 commerce but it still has the 2 clams. I just cant wrap my head around just why blue has greater commerce though i'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Blue has the same amount of forests to chop, red has more. Red would give +3 health.
robboo
Deity
OK the poll it...or we need more input
We need the silks to trade..if you understood what Sirian was saying about the maps is that resources will occur in clusters. So trade will be more important than a few extra commerce. We are financial so cottages will not be as lucrative. IMHO..no cottages on the silks..planataioans yep but not cottages. With 2 food before planatations they dont give enough growth to the city compared to the other tiles like the 2 clams and sheep. At the earliest population you would even think about using the cottaged silks is 4 pop since they give no hammers.Even at size 4 or 5 I would work a mined hill with the sheep and 2 clams. Because its silks and not something better...(gems, dyes, gold) I dont see us working them till much later so no need to cottage them.
Maintenace cost are not an issue..the next city should be smack up against this one unless copper is a ways away. 2 difference will not be a major factor.
Point is...all sites are fairly equal. However....if ybbors numbers are right this site(blue) has more potential with out as much workers turns or game turns to give mature cottages tiles.
/you and I will never agree...even in our multiplayer team games vs other peoplewe have heated discussions...
We need the silks to trade..if you understood what Sirian was saying about the maps is that resources will occur in clusters. So trade will be more important than a few extra commerce. We are financial so cottages will not be as lucrative. IMHO..no cottages on the silks..planataioans yep but not cottages. With 2 food before planatations they dont give enough growth to the city compared to the other tiles like the 2 clams and sheep. At the earliest population you would even think about using the cottaged silks is 4 pop since they give no hammers.Even at size 4 or 5 I would work a mined hill with the sheep and 2 clams. Because its silks and not something better...(gems, dyes, gold) I dont see us working them till much later so no need to cottage them.
Maintenace cost are not an issue..the next city should be smack up against this one unless copper is a ways away. 2 difference will not be a major factor.
Point is...all sites are fairly equal. However....if ybbors numbers are right this site(blue) has more potential with out as much workers turns or game turns to give mature cottages tiles.
/you and I will never agree...even in our multiplayer team games vs other people
we have heated discussions...
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I don't think blue is best. If you are going off those "unimproved" stats, I think that is a mistake. Better to think about what it'll be like improved, because +3 for silk makes a big difference. Disregarding the farm/ cottage choice, keeping forests, improved resources and mines (and assuming a lighthouse):
clams - 5 food, 2 commerce
silk (forest) - 2 food, 1 hammer, 3 commerce
sheep (hill) - 3 food, 1 hammer, 1 commerce
Green - 2 clam, 3 silk, 1 sheep, 6 grassland (2 rvr, 1 frst), 2 plains (1 rvr), 1 plains hill, 1 grass hill, 4 coast. 42, 14, 25 42 food will support all 20 tiles, so we can cottage everything!!(will reduce hammers by 1)
Red - same resources, 4 grass (1frst, 1 rvr), 3 plains ( 1 rvr), 1 grass hill, 1 plains hill, 5 coast (assumption
) 41 , 15, 26 Again, we can cottage everything. (will reduce hammers by 1)
Blue - 2 clam, 1 silk, 1 sheep, 5 grass (1 frst, 2 rvr), 3 plains, 2 plains hills, 5 coast, 38, 14, 18 Need 2 farms for full tile work.
So there you go. Count my vote for red, settle in place.
Actually, I left off the actual "city" tile in the count. How does it differ on grass or plain, or on river?
for silk makes a big difference. Disregarding the farm/ cottage choice, keeping forests, improved resources and mines (and assuming a lighthouse):clams - 5 food, 2 commerce
silk (forest) - 2 food, 1 hammer, 3 commerce
sheep (hill) - 3 food, 1 hammer, 1 commerce
Green - 2 clam, 3 silk, 1 sheep, 6 grassland (2 rvr, 1 frst), 2 plains (1 rvr), 1 plains hill, 1 grass hill, 4 coast. 42
, 14, 25 42 food will support all 20 tiles, so we can cottage everything!!(will reduce hammers by 1)Red - same resources, 4 grass (1frst, 1 rvr), 3 plains ( 1 rvr), 1 grass hill, 1 plains hill, 5 coast (assumption
) 41 , 15, 26 Again, we can cottage everything. (will reduce hammers by 1)Blue - 2 clam, 1 silk, 1 sheep, 5 grass (1 frst, 2 rvr), 3 plains, 2 plains hills, 5 coast, 38
, 14, 18 Need 2 farms for full tile work.So there you go. Count my vote for red, settle in place.
Actually, I left off the actual "city" tile in the count. How does it differ on grass or plain, or on river?
robboo
Deity
cant answer you last question about city tile
Good analysis..want to be assistant Domestic minister?
based on that..red settler in place. Hey I can see that wisdom. BTW..with lighhouse we would need to farm at blue? or did you count the lighthouse?
Doesnt really matter.. the hammers and gold are better elsewhere.
Good analysis..want to be assistant Domestic minister?
based on that..red settler in place. Hey I can see that wisdom.
BTW..with lighhouse we would need to farm at blue? or did you count the lighthouse?Doesnt really matter.. the hammers and gold are better elsewhere.
I disagree, not just for the sake of it but just because the first third of the game before you get calendar is probably the most crucial. During this time you can/need to cottage the silks, until calendar we wont be able to trade the silks anyways, so if we need to we can always take the cottages off the tiles and put a couple of plantations down. I assume you meant we are not financial but that doesnt mean cottages arn't as important.
Even when worked clams give you 4 food and 2 gold, thats after time has been spent investing in a work boat. So many turns will be needed to produce a couple of decent tiles. Civ4 is a commerce game, similar to the way that civ3 is a growth/expansion game, therefore anyway inwhich we can get more and more commerce we should take, in this case one of the ways would be to cottage them silks, even if they wernt usefull now when we have differing civics they will be very valuable.
The tiles which you suggested can even still be worked if the tiles were on the green site, yet give a greater middle game bonus.
Even when worked clams give you 4 food and 2 gold, thats after time has been spent investing in a work boat. So many turns will be needed to produce a couple of decent tiles. Civ4 is a commerce game, similar to the way that civ3 is a growth/expansion game, therefore anyway inwhich we can get more and more commerce we should take, in this case one of the ways would be to cottage them silks, even if they wernt usefull now when we have differing civics they will be very valuable.
The tiles which you suggested can even still be worked if the tiles were on the green site, yet give a greater middle game bonus.
