Outposts

[killmeplease]

* tiles aren't really yours. You can improve and gain resources but cannot work the tiles with a city

hmm it would nerf forts but might be counter-intuitive to a player.
my intention was that the tiles are temporarily yours, and works just like any other of your tiles, but when you lose a fort you lose tiles too. so they can be shown as regular tiles of your ownership, only city screen needs clarification as its a screen where you buy land. so they should to be marked somehow there.
although making them unworkable would be ok too

* you and other civs can still expand to tiles naturally, if another civs expands to the fort your unit is automaticly removed from there (even with open borders) if the other civ places a unit in the fort they will gain it's effect.

only you but not other civs.

So two more questions. If you occupied a fort during a war and are still occupying tiles that used to belong to another civ. Is there any way for that civ to grow back to those tiles without you leaving the fort?

no one can grow to already owned tiles, if fort is destroyed or captured they return to an original owner. only if original owner city gets destroyed, those tiles become nobody's and can be accquired by other civs. you can think of fort surroundings as of a second layer of ownership (temporary ownership, occupation).


the blue player can grow to tiles 3 and 4, can not grow to tiles 1 and 2 (but can work on them)
the red player can not grow to tiles 1, 2, 3 and 4.
the red player will get tiles 1 and 2 back, if fort is destroyed.

Also, do you get a discount tile cost if you're occupying tiles? Do other civs pay additional tile cost for tiles occupied by you? Or would this be exploitable?

i think that could be an interesting effect but as you mentioned potentially exploitable. or maybe not really exploitable but just unfun, as player will be forced to build them everywhere to increase his borders growth. what will render this feature redundant.

 

[CYZ]

Okay, so you could use forts to occupy tiles, making sure other civs cannot claim them (without war).

So if you see a good city site and are worried another civ might get there before you. You can send a worker and warrior, build a fort, occupy it. And voila, any civ wanting to settle nearby will have to do so at least 2 tiles further than whereever your site was. If you'd use more than one fort it would be even easier.

Wow, this would add a whole new layer of strategy for both expansion, offense and defense. Also, legion will be sooooo much better now!

I must say killmeplease, your input is just what this thread needed. How hard do you think it would be to make a mod for this?

I'd assume not so hard, but getting the ai to use it (in a smart way) might be superhard.

 

[killmeplease]

thank you for the appreciation of my idea
yeah legions will benefit much from this!

I must say killmeplease, your input is just what this thread needed. How hard do you think it would be to make a mod for this?

I'd assume not so hard, but getting the ai to use it (in a smart way) might be superhard.

modding i assume will not be hard (though i'm not sure as civ5 is not very modder-friendly) but teachicng the AI how to use the new concept, i think, is impossible without SDK access, unless we'll find some hack what i think is of very little probability.

 

[CYZ]

Too bad really. It's a great idea but if the human player is the only utilizing it there's no point. Let's keep it on the shelf untill SDK is released.

 

[Kurtbob]

Legions would be amazing...build fort then occupy...

I must say killmeplease, your input is just what this thread needed.
Too bad really. It's a great idea but if the human player is the only utilizing it there's no point. Let's keep it on the shelf untill SDK is released.

Agreed. Thanks killmeplease! Ideas are always welcome but doubly so from actual modders. I would love to see this modded into the game Crossing fingers with the SDK release!

 

[CYZ]

I just realized something, citadels. What do they do?

Obviously they at least have the same effect as the fort, but do they get any other bonusses?

There is something to be said for a two tile radius, but perhaps this would be too powerfull as well. After all, they have no building time and do additional damage to adjacent enemies. In fact, the free GG from the honour policy would be ideal for building a fort near an iron deposit early.

 

[killmeplease]

maybe it should provide a faster healing also. as there's only 1 unit sitting in it, beating off attacks.
ordinary forts could also provide faster healing, just like cities do.

 

[CYZ]

Not sure, it might be overpowered I think. Forts are already pretty strong and units already heal as if in friendly territory when inside or next to a fort.

 

[Kurtbob]

Not sure, it might be overpowered I think. Forts are already pretty strong and units already heal as if in friendly territory when inside or next to a fort.

I agree. I think the player should be taking a chance by building forts (they are supposed to be hard to take but not invulnerable). If a player wants city defenses, they should just build a city.

I think Citadels should have the same claim tile rules as fortresses. A second ring is not needed since the Citadel has boosted defensive capabilities.I think this is a good way to motivate civs to build more citadels, which is rarely ever see in most games.

 

[CYZ]

I think Citadels should have the same claim tile rules as fortresses. A second ring is not needed since the Citadel has boosted defensive capabilities.I think this is a good way to motivate civs to build more citadels, which is rarely ever see in most games.

I agree. Since you usually have more GGs than you'll need (when marmongering at least) this will be a nice alternative to a Golden Age. Planting a citadel on a strategic location may very well change the outcome of a war, and no worker is needed.