[Overview] Civ4BTS concepts that have not (yet) made it to Civ4Col / WTP

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
9,150
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Hi guys,

going through my spreadsheets I thought I might list again the stuff that Civ4BTS has that Civ4Col / WTP does not.

Stuff that is likely come in a WTP specific adaptation at some point:
(These concepts are highly desired by team and community and may be core of future releases.)

1) Techs --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
2) Civics --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
3) Religions --> we have a WTP concept for it
4) Upkeep / Taxes --> we have a WTP concept for it
5) Unique Units and Unique Buildings --> we don't yet have a full gameplay concept, but the techical functionality is there

Stuff that might come although generally has very little priority:
(I could imagine that we find concepts for it, but it simply does not have priority.)

1) Invisibility --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
2) Espionage --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
3) Trade Routes --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
4) Golden Ages -->we would need to see if we find a good concept
5) Ages / Eras --> we would need to see if we find a good concept

Stuff that is highly unlikely due to lack of immersive concepts:
(At least currently I consider it highly unlikely that we would ever work on them.)

1) Air Units --> nope, that just won't work
2) Corporations --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
3) Wonders --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
4) Natural Wonders --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
5) Great People --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept

-----

If I forgot any good Civ4BTS concept, let me know. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

Ramstormp

Warlord
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
176
Hi guys,

going through my spreadsheets I thought I might list again the stuff that Civ4BTS has that Civ4Col / WTP does not.

Stuff that is likely come in a WTP specific adaptation at some point:
(These concepts are highly desired by team and community and may be core of future releases.)

1) Techs --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
2) Civics --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
3) Religions --> we have a WTP concept for it
4) Upkeep / Taxes --> we have a WTP concept for it
5) UUs and UBs --> we don't yet have a full gameplay concept, but the techical functionality is there

Stuff that might come although generally has very little priority:
(I could imagine that we find concepts for it, but it simply does not have priority.)

1) Invisibility --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
2) Espionage --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
3) Trade Routes --> we would need to see if we find a good concept
4) Golden Ages -->we would need to see if we find a good concept
5) Ages / Eras --> we would need to see if we find a good concept

Stuff that is highly unlikely due to lack of immersive concepts:
(At least currently I consider it highly unlikely that we would ever work on them.)

1) Air Units --> nope, that just won't work
2) Corporations --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
3) Wonders --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
4) Natural Wonders --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept
5) Great People --> cannot imagine a fun and immersive concept

-----

If I forgot any good Civ4BTS concept, let me know. :thumbsup:
One thing that I have been wanting to port is the one where you enter a goody hut and suddenly you are surrounded by barbarians. The current "you have offended the natives" invisible attack and certain death goody feels less immersive to me.
 

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
9,150
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
One thing that I have been wanting to port is the one where you enter a goody hut and suddenly you are surrounded by barbarians.
That was already changed with the new Goody System that can spawn Hostile Units. :)
The current "you have offended the natives" invisible attack and certain death goody feels less immersive to me.
I agree, that is why that change mentioned was made. ;)

----

Summary:

You already got what you wanted
There is no "instant death" Goody anymore.
(Instead it will spawn hostiles.)
 
Last edited:

Nightinggale

Deity
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
5,032
1) Techs --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
2) Civics --> we just have a general idea, no full gameplay concept yet
We have done this in reverse order as the plan for the implementation of the effect of this is already coded (well it will forever be expanded) and was the first major addition I did to WTP when it started. I reused a concept from Medieval Conquest, through the implementation is better because it can be added in steps. We still need to figure out how to unlock techs and civics through. This is entirely a question of gameplay and immersion rather than technical issues.
5) UUs and UBs
It might be a good idea to tell what UU and UB is.
3) Trade Routes
BTS spreads trade routes using code in the exe. I coded a trade network code in Medieval Conquest, which is entirely in the DLL and it is simplified as it only spreads across unobstructed plots with routes. When using this, you can ask for the trade network ID on two plots and if it's the same, then you know they are connected by road without even looking at the map. This can be a gigantic speed boost for a road network on a huge continent. However I haven't figured out any feature, which would make good use of this in WTP, which would justify maintaining such grouping of plots, which may need to update every time enemies (including barbarians) blocks roads. If I add it right now, it would technically be a slowdown as we wouldn't use the speed boost part.

BTS uses it for spreading bonuses like keeping track of how many irons and stuff the cities have access to. We have wagon trains and as such that's not a good use case for us. It might be interesting for domestic market like background activities through.
 

Nightinggale

Deity
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
5,032
BTS spreads trade routes using code in the exe. I coded a trade network code in Medieval Conquest, which is entirely in the DLL and it is simplified as it only spreads across unobstructed plots with routes. When using this, you can ask for the trade network ID on two plots and if it's the same, then you know they are connected by road without even looking at the map. This can be a gigantic speed boost for a road network on a huge continent. However I haven't figured out any feature, which would make good use of this in WTP, which would justify maintaining such grouping of plots, which may need to update every time enemies (including barbarians) blocks roads. If I add it right now, it would technically be a slowdown as we wouldn't use the speed boost part.
I just had an idea. We can reuse this approach to not spread across roads (through we can certainly also do that), but rather water. If we add one plotgroup as deep water only and one as deep and shallow, then the units can check the plotgroup used by the unit and if the target plot has the same group ID as the plot the unit is currently in, then it can get there. If not, then there is no reason to try to create a path. This can then be used to boost pathfinding performance and will solve the issue that ships in Europe can figure out colonies on large rivers are accessible.

If used this way, then it's worth considering not to consider enemy units blocking the path. It's less critical than in BTS where blocking access to bonuses is a valid strategy and not bothering with updating plotgroups when units are moving will prevent a slowdown as that will allow plotgroups to be mostly static. They do change on colony founding through. This approach will also be able to detect usage of "canal cities".
 
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