Palace and National Wonders.

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. I don't understand why Sid Meier loves to call Capitol Building/Compounds as Palace? despite that there are variety of government systems? There should be better names.
1.1 Seat of Power
1.2 Capitol Compound.
'Palace' tend to be associated with a primary residence of a Monarch. and Monarches always have 'Large than Life' residences. Leaders under non-Monarchy never has THIS Big lodgings. Look at The White House. It is only a size of an average villa of lesser European noblemen. Yet it is more prestigious than any bigger palaces elsewhere. and The White House (as well as The Capitol Hill) has no fencings (AFAIK I've yet to visit the place) while there are fortified walls surrounding palaces elsewhere... in London (The Royal Fortress, the place where The White Tower is). Beijing (as well as many other cities in China) ... the so called 'The Forbidden City'. and so did copycats in Korea and Vietnam (Thanh Hue as Wonder in Civ7 DLC, in Civ6 'just Thanh'). or even here in Thailand (The Grand Palace. built with high, thick walls, towers, and bastions large enough to mount cannons.)
https://www.emerald-buddha.com/grand-palace-history

2. And Should 'National Wonders' return in the next game?
My Ideas.
(Early game, enables with Writing).
1. Great Library
2. Grand Temple
3. Elite Guard Barracks
4. Mint
5. Treasury
(Mid Game)
1. Imperial Academy (Super-University)
2. Forbidden City (It should now be a collective name that means walled secondary palace that includes Versailles, Sansourcci, Hue Thanh, as well as King Narai's Palace in Lopburi).. Requires Monarchy
3. Imperial Dockyard
4. Merchant Guild (Requires Commonwealth)
5. Imperial Arsenal
(Late Game)
1. National Institute
2. Military Academy
3. Naval School
4. Manufacturum (Think of Ruh Valley) .
5. Air Force Headquarters.
6. National Armory
7. United Central Train Station.
8. National Research Center.
9. NASA (well basically if the U.S. Federal Government didn't coin this first. this acronym will be generic).

 

[Vandlys]

[...] and The White House (as well as The Capitol Hill) has no fencings (AFAIK I've yet to visit the place) [...]

Me too, but... image search?

I think you have enough topic for two threads here, and I think this thread will get clunky trying to discuss both topics.

Personally, I think the name palace is fine. Calling it anything else would then be a problem for monarchs. Calling it something specific per civ would then be more confusing again.

As for national wonders: I like them. Why not have them return this game?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just musing, but I think the way to do National Wonders is primarily to keep them distinct from (World) Wonders:

1. Make each Wonder available only under circumstances specific to your in-game Civ: government type, Civics in place, specific actions taken in diplomacy, etc. Some might even be required to be built in the Capital only, such as Palaces, National Libraries, etc.

2. Make them Age-specific. After their Age, they might/should still provide some benefits, like Culture, Happiness, or Gold (Tourism?) but the model here is something like Versailles - a great palace and seat of government in its day (18th century CE), but no longer of any importance to the French government except as a tourist attraction.

3. Compared to the Civ-linked regular Wonders, make them generic as a type - as in Palaces, Science, Gold, Culture, Production producers, but the exact National Wonder within those types might be very specific as to required actions and antecedents (see No, 1)

4. Another possibility would be Leader Wonders, a type of 'National Wonder' that depends on the specific Leader. Charlemagne's Chapel at Aachen springs to mind, or one of the many monumental constructions in Rome for Augustus, or in Egypt for Hatshepset.

 

[CivKirk64]

Just musing, but I think the way to do National Wonders is primarily to keep them distinct from (World) Wonders:

1. Make each Wonder available only under circumstances specific to your in-game Civ: government type, Civics in place, specific actions taken in diplomacy, etc. Some might even be required to be built in the Capital only, such as Palaces, National Libraries, etc.

2. Make them Age-specific. After their Age, they might/should still provide some benefits, like Culture, Happiness, or Gold (Tourism?) but the model here is something like Versailles - a great palace and seat of government in its day (18th century CE), but no longer of any importance to the French government except as a tourist attraction.

3. Compared to the Civ-linked regular Wonders, make them generic as a type - as in Palaces, Science, Gold, Culture, Production producers, but the exact National Wonder within those types might be very specific as to required actions and antecedents (see No, 1)

4. Another possibility would be Leader Wonders, a type of 'National Wonder' that depends on the specific Leader. Charlemagne's Chapel at Aachen springs to mind, or one of the many monumental constructions in Rome for Augustus, or in Egypt for Hatshepset.

I love these ideas, I too miss national wonders.
I agree it would be best to restrict them in some way so that not every civ has the exact same set.
Limit them to attribute types, and by age, or only after passing certain thresh holds.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Mabye national wonders could be legacy point victory rewards? Collecting the most Codices in Antiquity could be awarded by being able to build a National Library. You could get a National Academy when winning the science in Exploration etc.
Maybe a Grand Temple for winning the culture path in Exploration and Royal Garden for Antiquity?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Mabye national wonders could be legacy point victory rewards? Collecting the most Codices in Antiquity could be awarded by being able to build a National Library. You could get a National Academy when winning the science in Exploration etc.
Maybe a Grand Temple for winning the culture path in Exploration and Royal Garden for Antiquity?

The only problem I can see with that is that frequently a Legacy Path is not completed until near the end of the Age, when you might not have enough time left to complete a National Wonder before the Age ends. Even if completed, you would get very little time to exploit the benefits from the Nat Wonder before the Age rolls everything over.

One possible solution would be to make the National Wonder build part of or an alternative to the regular Legacy Path, as examples:

A National Library in Antiquity being an 'automatic' collection of 2 - 3 Codexes and slots for them, and in Exploration adding X Science to every adjacent Quarter.

A National Temple/Cathedral/Mosque/Gurdwara, et al in Exploration doing something similar for Relics: X automatic Relics in X slots in the Temple.

A National Bank in Modern Age dropping the price of Railroad Stations and Factories by 25 - 50%

The National Academy of Sciences in Modern Age doing something similar for each of the Science Projects - drops their 'price' by 25 - 50%

A National/Specific Palace in Antiquity or Exploration providing a 'free' Army or Naval Leader, or a boost to Wonder construction (only one boost per Wonder, not continuous)

A National War Academy in Modern Age reducing the cost of air, sea, or land Leaders by 50%

And, of course, in addition to fheir Legacy Enhancements, any National Wonder should provide a continuous boost of Production, Gold, Happiness or Culture as appropriate for the Wonder.