Pangaea - Game Planning Tips

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I would tend to agree with Pangaeas and fippys choice here. I would consider settling on the gold a waste. It is such a good tile ( 3:hammers: 7 :commerce:) it basically doubles your early research. Also there is really no lack of food around, the apitol has more than enough food for basically the entire game.

Of course + :food: food surplus matters a lot early game, BUT you can always share this gold with the 2nd city and also there are a lot of turns in the early game where your capital doesnt grow at all anyway. Because it is building settlers/workers.

In this case the gold tile would provide more hammers than a FP with a farm or a cottage. There is no particular reason to work food resources in any city while building settlers/workers as long as you do not starve down.

Another factor to be considered is the unhealtiness:yuck:. Settling on the gold will cause -3:food: food due to unhealtiness ( 8 FP a 0.4 :yuck: = 3.2 :yuck: ; so -3 :food:).
Settling Lisboa like Pangaea did 1 S of the gold only causes -2:food: (5 FP a 0.4 :yuck: = 2.0 :yuck:; so only -2 :food:).

Assuming this game is deity difficulty, since i think Pangaea is trying to win deity maps at the moment, according to his last posts.

I hope i made no mistake here. So you gain tiles to work more :food: food but you also add +3 :yuck: in total in your capital ( you gain +1:health: because of the 2 forests ofc, but surely you want to chop those soon to get some extra :hammers: hammers.

I think it is debatable, settling on gold also has some advantages, but i would settle like Pangaea did.
 
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Not sure if it was mentioned yet, but maybe 1NE would be the best settling spot on Pangaea's map.

Small gain: Corn can be improved 1t faster after worker built, not settled on FP.
Bigger gain: Forests +x

+x was a bit wishy washy @lymond ;)
I forgot those goodies are not visible yet, and i also made it sound like we gain more than 1 bfc forest there.
 
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I was actually pondering 1NE myself this morning, My. ;) Net loss of 1FP for cap (but no murdered FPs either) but still plenty there to make a strong bureau cap with other river stuff too. I assume by Forests +x you mean the potential for forest growth as well? (forests in culture promote forest growth?)

And honestly, I tend to favor preserving an FP, if possible, unless just surrounded completely by them, or otherwise settling one relative to other tiles/resources.

edit: ha..I almost always do this when adding up FPs based on different moves. Actually, 1NE keeps the same amount of FPs - 6 - for the cap. (Unless I again bollocks that all up)

edit: per @Pangaea, I was right in the first place :lol: . I now shall recuse myself from counting FPs in the future.
 
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It's kind of interesting to debate this with 100% map knowledge, but that was of course not a benefit I had at the time. Still, even with hindsight knowledge, I'd probably settle where I did. As this is a game I'm still playing (for the HoF) I have the starting save, but I don't want to load that and risk accidentally moving the warrior or something. So I don't recall exactly where the warrior started, but I think it may have been to the SE. I know the corn wasn't visible, and don't think the incense was either. So I settled and hoped for food. Otherwise re-roll. Copper and horse couldn't be known for 50 turns or whatever it was (less for copper). Just imagine you only knew about the 9-tile area around the current capital. That was what I knew (or maybe 1-2 additional forested tiles).

Had I known the entire area, I still wouldn't have settled on the gold, that's for damn sure. Good point has already been raised about health. I find that +2 :yuck: is okay, but +3 can be pretty debilitating. There were more forests around too, which has mostly been chopped into settlers/workers. By fog-gazing I could see the outline of the river to the south and east, so I knew those tiles could be river-cottages. Had no idea about the north. So going north blindly would be silly in my view.

All in all I'm very glad I settled where I did. The more I look at it, this is going to be a beastly capital. All but one tile is riverside (okay two, but the plains incense is great anyway, post-calendar). And since this is intended to be a space game, it's going to be even more fantastic with Levee-boosted tiles all over the place (making GA even more surreally good). Food is a total non-issue, even in the early game. Didn't even bother to farm a floodplain because it would just be 7 wasted worker turns anyway. Gold has no food so it can be tricky if you are low on food, that is certainly true. But that isn't the case here. And even with food+gold+whatever, you get an extra :hammers: when producing a worker. Two on settlers (three if you work the forested plains tile) due to Expansive and Imperialistic. Gotta say it's been fun to play with Joao with boosts on BOTH workers and settlers, and a cheap as hell granary. He's fantastic for the early game.

As I explored the map more and learned it was pretty sweet, I tried to play more serious and it's been fun. Okay, so I "accidentally" crashed the economy and ended up with 18 cities by 1AD or whatever it was, but it has been fun. And once I dig us out of the hole I hope we'll be teching pretty fast (again).

I stated this previously, and others have as well, but it bears repeating: As this was a HoF game intended for space, I value early commerce a great deal more than the extra PH/gold hammer. It means I can get to Pottery-Writing early, and have a good chance to Oracle CS (not on Deity btw, where it would be hopeless). On that side of decisions, previously I have favoured getting early Alpha and backfilling up to Priesthood, which is also nice for knowing who may compete with you for the Oracle. Lately I've self-teched up to Priesthood instead, and gone for Math directly after Writing. Means I must make some sacrifices early and risk a very late Alpha (as sadly happened in this game), but :science:-wise it's cheaper to self-tech than side-track to Alpha. Not of much importance here really, but it also has the benefit of postponing "We fear you are too advanced" due to trading for cheap stuff like Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism, Priesthood. If you get off to a fast start, pretty typical in these HoF-type maps, the AIs may not even have much to trade if you get early Alpha. It's honestly not that uncommon to see maybe a couple AIs with Writing when you get Alpha, and basically nothing to trade except some of Masonry, AH, BW, IW, religious stuff. Cheap crap.

As an aside, I did end up settling that dotmap SE of the capital for cow+copper. It has actually grown a bit now due to helping grow cottages for the capital, but in the early game it was very useful for helping with settlers/workers and a little later with military units. Sadly the attempt to kill off Washington early failed because the timing was terrible and he happened to have 4 archers in there, and 5 by the time I could have attacked (but no settler oddly enough, so he wasn't ready with a settler party). Futile to attack that with 7 axes+1-2 chariots. But I got a couple of workers out of it by managing to corner their retreat from west of his capital. And after some hesitancy I then moved north and took out Gandhi instead. It was tempting to wait until he had a shrine (in typical Gandhi fashion, he had a double-holy city) because he built Stonehenge (GProphet points). Would have taken too long for my comfort, so I decided to kill him off instead. Then swung back south for Washington again, with more units.

It has been fun so far :) Too early to tell if I can get a good date out of it as the economy is down in the gutter currently, but hopefully I can recover okay and start teching up the tree fairly fast.
 
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edit: ha..I almost always do this when adding up FPs based on different moves. Actually, 1NE keeps the same amount of FPs - 6 - for the cap. (Unless I again bollocks that all up)
1NE would be 5 FPs, or 1 less than by SIP. Not a big deal as both are great options, but as I mentioned in the Wall of Text, even with hindsight knowledge I think I'd prefer SIP 1S of gold. It does kill a FP, but there are still 6, which is pretty sweet.

You'd gain some non-riverside plains too, which isn't great. But you'd gain (jungled) rice and horse, which would be good. Not something possible to know on T0 though.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that tile was forested, so you'd lose a turn and kill a forest. Two others things I don't like doing on T0 -- unless it means moving to a good tile like PH.
 
Again, hindsight, but some very nice overlap spots for this cap as well. Oh wait, wasn't that original point of all this..... :lol:

yep, if that tile was forested, I think that would change any 1NE decision considerably. No point in losing a turn for that, and a forest.

(I'm spectacular at giving advice with hindsight knowledge :mischief:)
 
Otherwise with Joao, yeah +1 hammer and gaining horse, an amazing production tile, is way better than a single gold mine which takes +4 food to offset in the spot Pangaea chose (because of FP unhealth).
Another factor to be considered is the unhealtiness:yuck:. Settling on the gold will cause -3:food: food due to unhealtiness ( 8 FP a 0.4 :yuck: = 3.2 :yuck: ; so -3 :food:).
Settling Lisboa like Pangaea did 1 S of the gold only causes -2:food: (5 FP a 0.4 :yuck: = 2.0 :yuck:; so only -2 :food:).
I agree with the general point you are making, but think I ought to comment on the - :food: thing, as I think it's a little misguided. Well, not entirely. What can happen with too many floodplains so you get 3 or even 4 :yuck: is that you can indeed end up with unhealth in the very early game, effectively losing you food - especially if you have food that isn't automatically connected with rivers (either you don't know the wheel, or can't spare the workerturns for roads).

More typical, however, is that you simply have a bit unhealth, but that it doesn't actually impact anything because you have more :health: from forests and other bonuses. At some point it will still become an issue, when the city grows large and outgrow various health bonuses, but that usually only happens in the mid to end game. Or, as mentioned, if you have way too many floodplains.
 
Again, hindsight, but some very nice overlap spots for this cap as well. Oh wait, wasn't that original point of all this..... :lol:
Haha, that was meant to be the point about the picture, but things derailed pretty heftily afterwards :D

Edit: Wholly relevant here... :devil:
 
Much, much later and I've finally submitted this game. Space win in 1555AD, where I went with the State Property route.

Oddly enough I would have been able to 1-turn the Ecology part, but almost nothing else was done, so it was pointless. All in all a decent date, although far from what the big shots can achieve. Think the settling decisions and suchlike turned out allright. And ofc, post-Biology every city has enough food. And SP-workshops are awesome. For once I actually got some use out of the Kremlin too. Typically I build it and then never go back into slavery (caste golden age, and with Mining you can typically quickly build factories anyway). This time I took a 5-turn pause into Slavery and whipped factories. 4-pop really isn't bad with almost no hammers invested.

The Golden Ages turned out quite nice, and I was able to launch a 5GP one too.

Good grief are these games slow though. Or, well, I am :sad:


Edit: I took a look at the start. The warrior was to the SW, so I saw the incense on T0. With this info, I think SIP makes the most sense, at least in a long-term game like this was intended to be.

e5LLdJz.jpg
 
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Much, much later and I've finally submitted this game. Space win in 1555AD, where I went with the State Property route.
:thumbsup:
Edit: I took a look at the start. The warrior was to the SW, so I saw the incense on T0. With this info, I think SIP makes the most sense, at least in a long-term game like this was intended to be.
Don't want to :deadhorse:, but I think especially for a long game, capital with high food becomes even stronger, while the gold-tile is useful mostly from T25 to say T100. Of course with this warrior position no way of knowing where the possible food resources are, and 2S and 2S1E seem most probable. Very hard to do anything else than SIP.
 
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