Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
No, dont mention the other workboat yet. we need to test their morals and candidness.
Paramount Intelligence Analysis: The Teams
- Thread starter Provolution
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Right, well, we still have a lot of time so whenever we are ready - and it could be someone else like our diplomat Bowsling if he wants, to log in and move the workboat and probably initiate contact. I think moving workboats + screenshots is really about all we have to do this turn anyway.
In other news, both Persia and the Netherlands founded cities last turn, bringing them up to two cities each I guess. That would be the AMAZONs and Sirius. We should take a long hard look at the next couple turns of Demographics to see what we can find out, and well making contact gives us a lot of information anyway too, we'll have contact with India and probably someone on the other side soon too.
In other news, both Persia and the Netherlands founded cities last turn, bringing them up to two cities each I guess. That would be the AMAZONs and Sirius. We should take a long hard look at the next couple turns of Demographics to see what we can find out, and well making contact gives us a lot of information anyway too, we'll have contact with India and probably someone on the other side soon too.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
We havent met Mavericks yet, yet we know where they are for now. I think we should map that eastern inlet/bay, and on the way out, we most likely see the northern civ we havent met, allowing us to meet both at once. I would also like to know if there is iron on our future borders too, in case map maker has been funny with us.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yeah, it would be really fun to approach India from the east, and make them believe for a short period of time that we live east of them (never lie, but make them think so). This would be like the vikings switching iceland with greenland etc.
I would rather not map the inlet. By moving on it's not just Mavericks - it saves us those 5-10 turns (however many we'd be going back and forth) on contact with the next civ after the Mavericks. (again, if they are the Mavericks and not Vikings, still not sure imo but I did think it looked more like India). However I think it's likely as cavscout says anyway that we find their culture going east too - they must have some coastal tile they can reach, and we'll pass by it. So the inlet seems like a bit of a detour - out of all the teams, we KNOW it's an inlet, and will just cut off at the center, and we won't find anyone else that way.
However, we should consider if we have any way or reason to entirely mislead that (Mavericks) team about the map in general. Depending on who they are and what they say, however, at this point, it would be quite easy to say that our workboat had actually come from the north. We know they've not sent a workboat our way and if from initial contact they don't know about the inlet/"star" situation, I don't see how they wouldn't believe the workboat came from the north, as it would in fact appear to. This could buy a lot of time settling or at the very least throw them off a lot, if we are willing to be cruel enough to do so. Basically, encouraging them to settle to THEIR North and East only crowds them up against another civ whilst our closest option for expansion, right to our own East, we can fill up on.
Even if aren't purposefully misleading though I'd still put in points for caution right away upon contact. Because they will know we have Stonehenge, and will see our workboat, and they would naturally ask for information about the map, which is really quite valuable if we actually told them truthfully. So my second option would be just being quiet and tight-lipped anyway, at the very least.
However, we should consider if we have any way or reason to entirely mislead that (Mavericks) team about the map in general. Depending on who they are and what they say, however, at this point, it would be quite easy to say that our workboat had actually come from the north. We know they've not sent a workboat our way and if from initial contact they don't know about the inlet/"star" situation, I don't see how they wouldn't believe the workboat came from the north, as it would in fact appear to. This could buy a lot of time settling or at the very least throw them off a lot, if we are willing to be cruel enough to do so. Basically, encouraging them to settle to THEIR North and East only crowds them up against another civ whilst our closest option for expansion, right to our own East, we can fill up on.
Even if aren't purposefully misleading though I'd still put in points for caution right away upon contact. Because they will know we have Stonehenge, and will see our workboat, and they would naturally ask for information about the map, which is really quite valuable if we actually told them truthfully. So my second option would be just being quiet and tight-lipped anyway, at the very least.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yeah, with mislead, its about acting quietly, not lying.
I agree with you and cavscout we should head right east, and then greet them from the north.
I agree with you and cavscout we should head right east, and then greet them from the north.
Sounds good, I'm pretty sure that inlet will be about exactly the same as ours. Besides, we should have a couple warriors over there 20ish turns mapping the rest of that "petal" by land, and the workboats can't see inland into the jungle and all. I still like the flower analogy/description quite a bit by the way but whatever works for everyone.
Some general updates so we have a feel of what is going on. One thing to note, is the demographics screen - still being posted on every played turn, but be sure to keep up. I was partially spurred to do some investigating thanks to the weird GNP somebody has achieved - food and production are middling for everyone. And, there is some very interesting news we really need to catch up on, so please check it out.
Mavericks (India) have only one city other than their capital. While they are not being honest with us, I really do believe they are working on world wonder(s) of some sort, they might be the ones maxing production.
MERLOT (Maya) has three cities other than their capital. They possibly just REX'd and are spamming cities/military - the good thing is they will clearly be behind in tech, and they may have the lowest GDP.
CDZ (Vikings) has 4 total cities. We see their two cities on the mainland, founded recently/size one I guess, and they must have two on the home island, capital and one other. So no Stonehenge and maybe a little less developed than us economically, but they are out there settling.
Sirius (Dutch) has 2 cities other than their capital. They should have had the highest default GDP for a while - they are financial and probably running all their mines, plus coastal fish or something. But pretty straightforward.
AMAZONs (Persia) have 5 total cities - their capital and 4 others. They are imperialistic so have probably gotten really significant advantages from chopping/just trying to REX. When we're worried about teams just spending gold for their own uses/maintenance, and mooching off of the tech alliance - this is just something to be aware of (they certainly have been rather slow to tech, just on Monarchy and now starting Theology). Fortunately they are not a close neighbor we have to compete with in settling races, looks like we can handle CDZ and Mavericks.
We are running espionage on Mavericks, currently we and CDZ can see each other's charts but we're not investing more there against allies. Nothing new likely to come for a while.
Here's some interesting news though, please, we've gotta keep track of things like this more
1. The AMAZONs built the great wall some turns back, their capital is pop 5, they might have slaved various things.
2. India has a capital of pop 3, further suggesting more slaving/whatever they are doing on wonders.
3. THERE HAVE BEEN A GREAT ENGINEER AND GREAT SCIENTIST BORN! The engineer, I'm almost certain, must be India. Being philosophical, they Oracle'd Metal Casting, and got the engineer from a forge. This is huge news, it really explains what they are doing, so we wait to see what they use it on. The Scientist, I really do not know who got it, it could be someone in our alliance who slaved a library - possibly Sirius did that and really does have that high of a GNP, library and Academy or something. For the record, we almost certainly have a prophet coming in for ourselves, and getting a shrine is fine, after that we probably pick up a scientist after running some GP for a while.
So just in short - we need to keep up with event logs and so on when we can. Also, we didn't get Hereditary rule in our current civics switch - luckily enough we don't need it right now really, we have the happiness, but want to make sure we get all the techs/trades our allies are doing.
One other incidental thing I noticed while logged in - we apparently still chopped at Quatron, but this actually isn't bad, since now we should have both workers on the same plantation, getting the plantation in the capital up in two turns (and then they could do the Quatron plantation together, after that probably prepping things for Singularity)
Mavericks (India) have only one city other than their capital. While they are not being honest with us, I really do believe they are working on world wonder(s) of some sort, they might be the ones maxing production.
MERLOT (Maya) has three cities other than their capital. They possibly just REX'd and are spamming cities/military - the good thing is they will clearly be behind in tech, and they may have the lowest GDP.
CDZ (Vikings) has 4 total cities. We see their two cities on the mainland, founded recently/size one I guess, and they must have two on the home island, capital and one other. So no Stonehenge and maybe a little less developed than us economically, but they are out there settling.
Sirius (Dutch) has 2 cities other than their capital. They should have had the highest default GDP for a while - they are financial and probably running all their mines, plus coastal fish or something. But pretty straightforward.
AMAZONs (Persia) have 5 total cities - their capital and 4 others. They are imperialistic so have probably gotten really significant advantages from chopping/just trying to REX. When we're worried about teams just spending gold for their own uses/maintenance, and mooching off of the tech alliance - this is just something to be aware of (they certainly have been rather slow to tech, just on Monarchy and now starting Theology). Fortunately they are not a close neighbor we have to compete with in settling races, looks like we can handle CDZ and Mavericks.
We are running espionage on Mavericks, currently we and CDZ can see each other's charts but we're not investing more there against allies. Nothing new likely to come for a while.
Here's some interesting news though, please, we've gotta keep track of things like this more
1. The AMAZONs built the great wall some turns back, their capital is pop 5, they might have slaved various things.
2. India has a capital of pop 3, further suggesting more slaving/whatever they are doing on wonders.
3. THERE HAVE BEEN A GREAT ENGINEER AND GREAT SCIENTIST BORN! The engineer, I'm almost certain, must be India. Being philosophical, they Oracle'd Metal Casting, and got the engineer from a forge. This is huge news, it really explains what they are doing, so we wait to see what they use it on. The Scientist, I really do not know who got it, it could be someone in our alliance who slaved a library - possibly Sirius did that and really does have that high of a GNP, library and Academy or something. For the record, we almost certainly have a prophet coming in for ourselves, and getting a shrine is fine, after that we probably pick up a scientist after running some GP for a while.
So just in short - we need to keep up with event logs and so on when we can. Also, we didn't get Hereditary rule in our current civics switch - luckily enough we don't need it right now really, we have the happiness, but want to make sure we get all the techs/trades our allies are doing.
One other incidental thing I noticed while logged in - we apparently still chopped at Quatron, but this actually isn't bad, since now we should have both workers on the same plantation, getting the plantation in the capital up in two turns (and then they could do the Quatron plantation together, after that probably prepping things for Singularity)
Updates - turn 78/925 BC
Just a general note on how various things are progressing. We have some domestic and foreign issues discussed in other threads right now, but for more knowledge of everything going on:
As seen on diplo screens, most teams have 4 cities founded other than their capitals. India only has three cities other than their capital, it's also possible they have not proceeded far off of their home island.
Sirius and AMAZON appear about equal - they are rather far away so we haven't seen where they have been settling.
MERLOT actually has the number 1 population and land area right now - we are behind them. They have the second most populous capital too. They also built up a large stockpile of gold. So overall I would not be surprised if they are trying to turn things to the best military they can accrue. The good news is that they are closer to AMAZONs and skirmishing with them rather than us.
Our neighbors CDZ have five cities total - so still just two on their "home island" and the three (!) that they've now founded on our shared petal.
No other world wonders have been built, we currently have all the tech anyone has. Our ETTT allies haven't been offered Compass yet, we probably could/should do that, but we are likewise discussing a message to send elsewhere.
However I am really unsure of what everyone is teching, seems like it's been a while since new tech cropped up. I know CDZ was on Machinery but as for our other allies - were we after Construction and Civil Service or what? Hoping anyway that CS comes in soon, it should help our capital quite a bit of course.
Anyone with more insight or news always feel free to share here, just felt we could use an update.
Just a general note on how various things are progressing. We have some domestic and foreign issues discussed in other threads right now, but for more knowledge of everything going on:
As seen on diplo screens, most teams have 4 cities founded other than their capitals. India only has three cities other than their capital, it's also possible they have not proceeded far off of their home island.
Sirius and AMAZON appear about equal - they are rather far away so we haven't seen where they have been settling.
MERLOT actually has the number 1 population and land area right now - we are behind them. They have the second most populous capital too. They also built up a large stockpile of gold. So overall I would not be surprised if they are trying to turn things to the best military they can accrue. The good news is that they are closer to AMAZONs and skirmishing with them rather than us.
Our neighbors CDZ have five cities total - so still just two on their "home island" and the three (!) that they've now founded on our shared petal.
No other world wonders have been built, we currently have all the tech anyone has. Our ETTT allies haven't been offered Compass yet, we probably could/should do that, but we are likewise discussing a message to send elsewhere.
However I am really unsure of what everyone is teching, seems like it's been a while since new tech cropped up. I know CDZ was on Machinery but as for our other allies - were we after Construction and Civil Service or what? Hoping anyway that CS comes in soon, it should help our capital quite a bit of course.
Anyone with more insight or news always feel free to share here, just felt we could use an update.
UPDATES: TURN 99
We're currently in the middle of discussing war plans against the Mavericks, the diplomatic troubles in the ETTT, and our own builds. I went and got some of the screenshots/data I'd been asking for and now we can all review things. Anyway, some screenshots related to all this discussion, mostly foreign intel obviously. Turn-by-turn demographics are found in the played turns thread as always still.
Firstly: City foundings: Most of our rivals have 6 cities - capital + five others. For the Mavericks, we're unsure where the fifth city is but I think it is as listed below. CDZ has the all the cities we've seen plus the one barb city they captured. (more on that too). For our allies AMAZONs and Sirius they've been kind enough to share recent maps - we know where all of their expansion has been.
Simple overviews:
F8 screen says nothing new, just put it in here for completeness' sake. Not quite sure if the population here matches F9 exactly (I think one counts pop points and the other counts "demographic pop" but they both give good estimates). We're doing well regardless.
Top cities screen also for formality, for anyone hungry for screenshots/not seen them for a while. No new wonders for quite a while, so no real news here.
Here's the log. Most important/relevant part: CDZ capturing the barb city. We should check very carefully how this matches up with other gold/military activity. Great People and other news we already knew about
War plans: I thought we were pretty certain Mavericks had another city up here. If that's NOT the case - well then I was forgetful/wrong and I'm sorry. Anyway, I was thinking the warrior in Pulsar perhaps ought to scout it. Couldn't move it now as we're past our "half of the turn" we can move, but maybe the next 2-3 turns the warrior goes to the coast and scouts that?
Now here's interesting stuff - things we maybe haven't been doing enough of. City analysis - when we've shared maps or can see cities it pays off to check out what buildings folks have. Mostly, We're looking at CDZ as our neighbors for worries of military threats - can't see all of Mavericks cities but those we can are helpful too.
Here's Or Here. CDZ follows the pattern of most everyone - few buildings yet, just granaries on continental cities.
Here's Spamville. Notably, it doesn't seem to have a granary but does have a library
We're maybe 4-5 turns out from stealing it's northern clams so Spamville is about going to be stuck/not an issue anymore, whatever CDZ was doing with it.
CDZ's capital. Only city that has one of their trading posts for building naval units apparently. I hadn't even realized how they had their clams setup, that was a sweeter start from the start of the game than I would have thought, but doesn't really matter.
Their capital and Rotterspam, on their home continent, appear to have barracks - nowhere else does though, so they won't be pumping out too many veteran troops everywhere.
For comparison: Sirius' capital. They have a whole lot of buildings, confirmed Academy (we knew they had an Academy for a while, just dunno if anyone posted a good screenshot). Also granary, lighthouse, harbor, library it looks like. Anyway we knew they'd been focusing on quite strong economy/gnp
Mostly AMAZONs/rest of Sirius didn't matter, if anyone wanted more screenshots someone can get them for you (and I know players on the team not logging in regularly do always want screenshots). What we really want, of course, is shots of Mavericks/MERLOT but we don't have those. Maybe we get our ships over soon enough and we'll see for ourselves what's in their cities with our troops marching down the streets
We're currently in the middle of discussing war plans against the Mavericks, the diplomatic troubles in the ETTT, and our own builds. I went and got some of the screenshots/data I'd been asking for and now we can all review things. Anyway, some screenshots related to all this discussion, mostly foreign intel obviously. Turn-by-turn demographics are found in the played turns thread as always still.
Firstly: City foundings: Most of our rivals have 6 cities - capital + five others. For the Mavericks, we're unsure where the fifth city is but I think it is as listed below. CDZ has the all the cities we've seen plus the one barb city they captured. (more on that too). For our allies AMAZONs and Sirius they've been kind enough to share recent maps - we know where all of their expansion has been.
Simple overviews:
F8 screen says nothing new, just put it in here for completeness' sake. Not quite sure if the population here matches F9 exactly (I think one counts pop points and the other counts "demographic pop" but they both give good estimates). We're doing well regardless.
Spoiler :
Top cities screen also for formality, for anyone hungry for screenshots/not seen them for a while. No new wonders for quite a while, so no real news here.
Spoiler :
Here's the log. Most important/relevant part: CDZ capturing the barb city. We should check very carefully how this matches up with other gold/military activity. Great People and other news we already knew about
Spoiler :
War plans: I thought we were pretty certain Mavericks had another city up here. If that's NOT the case - well then I was forgetful/wrong and I'm sorry. Anyway, I was thinking the warrior in Pulsar perhaps ought to scout it. Couldn't move it now as we're past our "half of the turn" we can move, but maybe the next 2-3 turns the warrior goes to the coast and scouts that?
Spoiler :
Now here's interesting stuff - things we maybe haven't been doing enough of. City analysis - when we've shared maps or can see cities it pays off to check out what buildings folks have. Mostly, We're looking at CDZ as our neighbors for worries of military threats - can't see all of Mavericks cities but those we can are helpful too.
Here's Or Here. CDZ follows the pattern of most everyone - few buildings yet, just granaries on continental cities.
Spoiler :
Here's Spamville. Notably, it doesn't seem to have a granary but does have a library
We're maybe 4-5 turns out from stealing it's northern clams so Spamville is about going to be stuck/not an issue anymore, whatever CDZ was doing with it.Spoiler :
CDZ's capital. Only city that has one of their trading posts for building naval units apparently. I hadn't even realized how they had their clams setup, that was a sweeter start from the start of the game than I would have thought, but doesn't really matter.
Their capital and Rotterspam, on their home continent, appear to have barracks - nowhere else does though, so they won't be pumping out too many veteran troops everywhere.
Spoiler :
For comparison: Sirius' capital. They have a whole lot of buildings, confirmed Academy (we knew they had an Academy for a while, just dunno if anyone posted a good screenshot). Also granary, lighthouse, harbor, library it looks like. Anyway we knew they'd been focusing on quite strong economy/gnp
Spoiler :
Mostly AMAZONs/rest of Sirius didn't matter, if anyone wanted more screenshots someone can get them for you (and I know players on the team not logging in regularly do always want screenshots). What we really want, of course, is shots of Mavericks/MERLOT but we don't have those. Maybe we get our ships over soon enough and we'll see for ourselves what's in their cities with our troops marching down the streets
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