Patriotism, good thing/bad thing?

[FredLC]

is that so, Plarq? AFAIK, the forming of central states was a manner that the union between Church and Kings found to unify power, so it could be more easily controlled, and was supported by the bourgeoisie in order to achieve unified taxes and measures (necessary to allow the better flowing of the commerce). Hence, rather than ending monarchy, it was the first step towards the absolute monarchs of the XVI century (though it did end feudalism). Now, later, the bourgeoisie and the nobility turned into each other, and it's for the struggle to end monopolies and social/fiscal privileges that the enlightenment and the first generation of universal rights were born, but this was far, far later than the creation of nationalism, when there was even world potencies already, such as Portugal and Spain (at first), England and France (later).

Regards .

 

[Swedishguy]

Patriotism is defnitely a good thing, if you cant have pride in your country and its achievements then what can you be proud of.

Define pride. Seriously, do it.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Patriotism is generally a bad thing.

It can be good in situations like where your country has been invaded and you support your country in it'sindependance and fight for it'sflag or whatever.

But then there are many bad situations where people are so patriotic they hate all other countries, where they always put themselves and their country above others, where they attack those who don't support their countries goals, where they turn a blind eye to their governments bad actions and follow blindy.

 

[The Last Conformist]

It has its good side and its bad sides - I hesitate to name either as globally dominant.

It's usually aesthetically deplorable ...

 

[Eukaryote]

Pretty much a pointless attitude, we're all humans at the end of the day.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

I think it's far more important to be proud of being human

I never said I wasn't proud of being human, being proud to be an American does not mean I am anti-human.

Nationalism has been an interesting & very recent experiment. We've got to let go of it sometime and move on.

I never mentioned anything about Nationalism, being Patriotism =/= Nationalism.

What if your country is Iran, North Korea, or Syria?

If your proud of your country that oppresses you, all the power to you. Just because I'm proud of my country for providing me with great opportunities and freedoms, doesn't mean everybody is proud of their respective country.

 

[plarq]

If your proud of your country that oppresses you, all the power to you. Just because I'm proud of my country for providing me with great opportunities and freedoms, doesn't mean everybody is proud of their respective country.

1) A true patriot should seek ways to undermine the evil reign and facilitate the eventual destruction of the regime.
2) If the downfall of the evil regime could not help people either, then flee from the country and seek international intervention.
3) If it's P.R.China, I'd rather not to be patriotic.

 

[willemvanoranje]

Actually, the first step to end monarchy or feudal system is the awakening of nationalism. So there posed the dilemma: what can we do to bring more power to the people (democracy) while not bring them ultra-nationalism (i.e. dangerous stupidity)?

Money. Economic growth is an important factor. Economic growth brings forth the middle class, a new elite without any power. This new elite demands power, and usually has received it.

Is it really crazy that early democracies regularly suffer from heavy forms of nationalism? Before democracy, the power was with the old elites, who basically controled everything. With democracy, the people get a vote and the old elite is losing its power. To continue the lead, the elite has to come up with something. If they can adapt, this could mean for example civic nationalism, where the people would pledge their loyalty to democracy. Nothing really wrong with that. But if they aren't? With the introduction of free press and freedom of speech, people just might believe the press is actually free eventhough it is controled by the elite. Before democracy the people knew all the news was elite propaganda and wouldn't trust it anyway, just look at the Soviet Union.. but under the democracy the elite will have much smarter ways to influence the people through the press. Enough examples out there.. Rwanda and Yugoslavia are probably the worst cases of ethnic nationalism in recent history. Or what about Biscmarck Germany, who had a type of counterrevolutionary nationalism in which leftists where deemed enemies of the state...