Patronage Strategy

[budweiser]

I was playing France, Emperor, Standard, Continents. I read on the GOTM forums about selling all your luxury resources to the AI, even if it’s your only one and buying a CS with the money. Let me tell you, it works like a champ.

I am partial to France for the culture, but I saved my policies until I hit medieval and I put them all into Patronage to start. Between the money and the quests I had all the CS allied with me, about 8 on my continent.

My continent was rather small. It only had me, China and Turkey. An early scout found all the CS while a worker improved my 2 starting luxuries and that is all it took. I founded a second French city to grab just a few more luxuries to sell and started buying Maritime and Cultural City States. I did not buy research agreements.

Before long, it was time to sweep up China and Turkey. I am talking about 3 knights vs warriors, archers and spears at 100AD. No contest. I just used a Great Scientist to propel me to medieval and another one to put Chivalry in research range.

That’s where I am at now, 600AD. The continent is mine. I have 3 French cities, 7 AI puppets and all the CS allies. I bought 2 Caravels and I found Hiawatha on the other continent. He is going to be the major power over there. He already has about 10 cities.

I am not sure how to proceed at this point. Should I raise and replant all the puppets? Should I take over the City states at some point? What other policy tree would work best?

I started on tradition just to give Paris a boost to wonder production. Policies are coming pretty fast right now, but I wonder if I should spam French cities on my continent. If so, I should go for Liberty?

 

[Cuba Libre]

You're well on your way to a diplo victory, might as well keep going. I just did one, on Emperor in fact, with an extremely similar strategy. The AI on the other continent is contained; even if he does eventually get angry and declare on you (and if it's just down to the two, he will), he'll be incompetent about transporting his troops across the ocean. Just build a decent navy (4-5 ships) and post them at important ports/at chokepoints in the sea lanes. Otherwise, spam trading posts and concentrate on building money buildings and wonders - avoid everything else except maybe basic science and culture buildings, to keep your gpt as high as possible. And of course complete your trade network, using Harbors instead of roads whenever possible.

Your puppets are going to be a problem because they'll be making useless buildings that you'll have to pay maintenance on, and a diplo game is really a gold game. Monitor them closely; when they start building useless crap (especially military buildings), either annex if you have the happiness or raze.

Your SPs are pretty irrelevant at this point, but I'd finish off Patronage and get the first couple Commerce policies. Liberty will be helpful if you want to fill the land with your own cities (which isn't strictly necessary), and the wonder-building policy in Tradition is pretty sweet icing.

 

[DaveGold]

Never return to Liberty if you've skipped it at the start. All the later trees are stronger.

I suggest you should raze the puppets and convert the two capitals. Late in the game you can maintain puppets but at this stage you can get more value from replacing them. Nobody is going to compete with you for the land so you can resettle at your leisure.

 

[Numi]

I agree, make use of your solitude and replant those puppets, I would also build up atleast a half decent navy to surround your continent so you have a few turns to prep yourself from any attacks, not that the AI will go out of its way to attack you until it has its whole continent probably.

 

[budweiser]

Thanks for the input. I can’t play until tonight so I am thinking about what to do.
I am already finished with the Patronage tree. Beyond that, I have 2 points in tradition, for the wonder bonus. I may or may not have a point ready to spend right now. I am still tempted by liberty for the improved settlers. I guess commerce could work, because 100 turns from now, when I am finishing the tree, I will have access to every resource on my continent.

If I go for Diplo, I pretty much have to finish the tech tree, which to me means research agreements. The problem I see is that I already eliminated 2 possible research partners and I have some evidence that Hiawatha is going to run away. He would be a bad partner, and anyone left over there is likely to die soon. Never-the-less, I will try and shoot up the tech tree, aided by my CS allies.

I will likely raise all the puppets and fill in with French settlers, blocking all possible coastal sites from Hiawatha.

Instead of turtling I would like to get a settler on the other continent and set up a military base over there. I could put my UUs to good use soaking up AI units and securing more alliances with City States. I wonder if I could get all 16 of them. Mean while turning Paris into a super city.

 

[Law Lord]

I agree with the raze/resettle strategy at your leisure. You're on your own continent, and you have time. As for building a navy, the AI is so bad at naval combat that I'd build maybe two or three sentries to spot any major buildup and leave it at that. It's extremely unlikely that the AI will attempt an invasion.

I disagree with previous posters on the optimal social policy goal. Given that you're getting a science bonus from all your CS allies, your newfound isolation, and that your best victory path is probably Diplomatic, science is the be all and end all. The faster you advance to Globalization, the faster you win. I would beeline to Free Thought, and trade post the puppets, at least until you annex them. Free Thought will then clinch this game for you: the combination of horrible naval AI and a significant science advantage will make Hiawatha no threat, if not easy pickings if you decide to switch to a Domination victory.

I agree that going back to Liberty is largely pointless. Meritocracy is the only good mid to late game policy, but it too gets increasingly marginal as the game progresses. The "gold" side of the Commerce tree is a bit deceptive IMO: it appears strong, but isn't as strong as Rationalism or Freedom are depending upon the victory type you are going for.

Edit: as an aside, if/when the naval AI is fixed, Commerce will become quite a bit more attractive. It could lead to a really interesting mid-game dilemma about whether to go Commerce or Rationalism on Continents.

 

[SaltyJustice]

If Hiawatha has his capital on the coast, do the following:
Build 4-5 combat ships, and 3-4 assault units. Doesn't matter what type, power is all you're concerned with. If you can get them the amphibious promotion, do so.
Once he conquers his continent, of at least captures the last capital, declare on him and bombard his capital with your ships. Then, assault the city from the sea in the same turn. If you do it right, you can steal his capital and get a domination win very early.

If his capital is farther inland but not too far, do the same but build a larger invasion force. Lure the enemy to the coast and nail them with naval bombardments. If his capital is deep inland, forget about it, you'll need to either fight a long bloody war or win through diplomacy/space race/whatever.

 

[alpaca]

I say keep the puppets and go for cultural, that's a whole lot more fun than the diplo victory. I played an Emperor game today with Persia where I got the UN victory by turn 237 through beakering and a well-placed Great Engineer, and I wasn't even managing my empire that well because I'm spoiled by ICS

What I'm trying to say is: The diplomatic victory might as well be called the "bribe city states and win" victory. All you have to do is to whack some AIs over the head and free the city states if they gobbled up too many. The only slightly interesting victory conditions seems to be cultural (don't even get me started on the ship victory - the AI won't do a thing to try to get it).

 

[budweiser]

Here is what happened:

It wasn’t the most efficient, play but it went OK.

I tried my idea of establishing a military base on continent 2, but to make a long story short, it ultimately failed, leading to 400 years of war between me and Hiawatha.

This forced the focus back to my own continent, where I pretty much went cultural, 5 cities at first, then 4 when I lost my overseas colony. I picked up Freedom for cheaper policies, then went rationalism for science. Science is screaming along at over 460 a turn. It’s around 1828 and I need 6 or 7 more policies to finish 5 trees: Tradition, Patronage, Commerce, Rationalism, and Freedom. I have the techs for the UN and Sydney Opera House, Cristo Rendentor is up and so is a broadcast tower in Paris. Culture is assured in 80 to 100 turns at about 340 a turn right now. I guess I could get a Diplo a bit sooner, so I will try for that.

Ho hum, guess I will move up to Immortal. I like France, I like all the social policies, even if it isn’t necessarily the best play.