Permanent Alliance = Instant Win?

[Hawaiian]

I was wondering, I just had a game where I made a PA with the number 1 scoreleader Catherine, (who was not the tech leader), where I was way down on the score list. I jumped right up to number 1 with her. Suddenly, the game seems to be a no-challenge win, whereas before, it was still a huge uphill battle (as my home continent wasn't blessed with either coal or uranium! Hopefully that means aluminum will be somewhere accessible)

Anyways, do you have a similar experience with this? I just want to know if I should disable PAs in my next games as they may be easy wins.

Thanks

 

[cabert]

permanent alliances are a bit unbalanced, in the sense that the AI doesn't go for them.
However :
Teaming up with the number 1 is certainly a strong move, but it requires to be in a good diplomatic situation + having the right tech (communism?), so there still is some strategic diplomacy involved.

That being said, this feature is disabled dy default for a good reason...

 

[Jaja]

I am kinda split when it comes to PAs.
I mean, if you got a game that's not on a super-small map and starts in medieval-> times, it's a done deal that the world will be split up by PAs. Cos, someone gets the religion Judiasm, then it spreads to his neighbour. There are no diplomatics involved here with the AI. If someone got their religion, they are best friends for evah. And then they sign a PA. Their Research is DOUBLED, and you have to find someone to sign one of your own to keep up. The fun part is of course challenge. But I usually keep them off nontheless.

 

[oyzar]

PA's in single player seems pretty unbalanced. Sounds like fun in MP though.

 

[MrFelony]

I had a game a long time ago where two civs entered a PA with each other. they made it a lot harder to get a domination win

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Actually the effective research is not doubled, because PA members have to pay more for the techs (techs cost 50% more for PA members to off set the effective doubling)

In any case it is fun the AI teaming up adds an interesting dynamic

 

[Brownie]

permanent alliances are a bit unbalanced, in the sense that the AI doesn't go for them.
However :
Teaming up with the number 1 is certainly a strong move, but it requires to be in a good diplomatic situation + having the right tech (communism?), so there still is some strategic diplomacy involved.

That being said, this feature is disabled dy default for a good reason...

I keep PA's on, because if the AI does enter one, late game becomes very interesting. I'd estimate a PA is signed in about 50 per cent of games I play through, 18 civs, huge hemisphere. Generally speaking, they are signed by two civs that are just off the main pace, and they become the "superpower". I haven't had much success getting my own PA since Vanilla.

 

[Sir Jaref]

I saw two in my last game. First it was De Gaulle/Surayayayanmnmsumtin, who pretty much ran the show, and invaded everyone on their continent, then Hannibal and Bodiqua formed an alliance to rival them, and it ended up in a big mess of wars all over the place, while I was sitting peacefully on my continent building up for the space race ^^

I've never tried forming a permanent alliance myself, but I still have it on. I think it's pretty cool that two AI's can team up. Makes them more powerful

 

[Sofista]

I remember my first PA: it was the AI, Bismarck, who offered me.

A paradoxal thing happened when I experimented playing against every AI in alphabetical order, in Warlords still: Washington joined with... Roosevelt, and run away with the ball!

 

[Gooblah]

Couple things about PAs-

1) The Permanent Alliance option must be checked in the Custom Game Screen. No other way to have them in the diplomacy screen
2) The prerequisite tech is Fascism.
3) To even have a PA be an option in diplomacy, a Defensive Pact (from Military Tradition) must be active with the Civ.

PAs come in handy during OCC games, and in general when you have the lowest military, score, or techs.

 

[darrelljs]

3) To even have a PA be an option in diplomacy, a Defensive Pact (from Military Tradition) must be active with the Civ.

Either that, or you are fighting a mutual war. In both cases you need several turns before the AI will sign a PA with you (I want to say 40 turns at Epic, but I can't recall for sure). I'd also add:

4) You can only have a PA with one AI.

Darrell

 

[KMadCandy]

i like to leave them on in case the AIs want to sign them. but i don't sign them, i think i have 3 times in weird games (things like trying to win by culture playing OCC and using 2 of their cities ). i like leaving them the PA option on, when two strong leaders team up late in the game it makes things look a lot different and can shake up a game that was feeling pretty much like "yeah okay boring, just head through the motions now". or it can mean i totally get my candybutt kicked, which can be fun too every once in a while.

so...

Anyways, do you have a similar experience with this? I just want to know if I should disable PAs in my next games as they may be easy wins.

i'm actually the exact opposite. i leave them on since it might make the game harder and more exciting /shrug. if i don't sign one myself, then it can't turn the game into an easy win for me. but it just might help the AIs develop into a powerful team.

In both cases you need several turns before the AI will sign a PA with you (I want to say 40 turns at Epic, but I can't recall for sure).

i think it is 40, but i'm not sure about that. i do know that the game speed doesn't change the number of turns. so PAs are much more likely to happen in epic/marathon games than in quick games, simply because there are so many more turns in the game. same theory as culture-flipping cities, where chances don't vary by game speed either.

 

[Hawaiian]

i'm actually the exact opposite. i leave them on since it might make the game harder and more exciting /shrug. if i don't sign one myself, then it can't turn the game into an easy win for me. but it just might help the AIs develop into a powerful team.

That's awesome. I never considered that idea. I went back to an earlier save, didn't accept the PA with Catherine, and have been playing the same save since; fighting my way, the hard way, back up through the pack. But that's a great idea to leave PAs on for the AIs. Might make for a very exciting tough pact-of-AI-nations situation.

 

[KMadCandy]

i hope it's fun!

they don't always sign PAs. it see more AI PAs the higher the level, probably a consequence of them signing DPs earlier in the game and more DPs in general. probably also related to them learning MilTrad and Communism earlier.

 

[Deriem]

In all my games I enable them, but have never seen an AI use it. And no one likes me enough to sign one with me I'd probably restart if I suddenly realised that my winning or losing could well depend on a Tank-heavy psychopath.

Maybe I'll try for one in my next game... see if I can't get Izzy (I always end up with Izzy) into my wars. To the drawing boards!

 

[TomasLacerda]

What is the defensive pact mates?

I already researched the military tradition and fascism, and the permanent alliance is still red on the AI, she say's that we dont have a pack neither shared a war.

Well, she asked me for help in a war and I have military tradition, whats missing?
I read somewhere that you need to "activate" the military tradition pack?...I'm a little lost, I'm new on civ btw.

Take care mates.

 

[KMadCandy]

What is the defensive pact mates?

you might not be seeing the DP option because you're checking the trade screen at the wrong times. you can't sign one when either person is at war. i can't remember if it's on there and redlined or if it just doesn't show up at all, tho. when it's there, it's up near the top like where "vassal state" is, i think before the techs.

you need to be in a mutual war or a defensive pact for a number of turns (i think it's 40) before they'll sign the PA. and even then you have to be at a certain friendliness level. they all have their personal standards, some will sign them earlier than others. that goes for both DPs and PAs actually. some folks need to be at friendly with you, but some will sign a DP even at cautious maybe.

welcome to CFC . i hope you have fun here, and playing civ!

 

[TomasLacerda]

Thanks mate.

Yeah, it aint that common for me to check trade screen that often, but now I know, as soon as I research Military Tradition I'll be checking trade screen more often.

(This game is so addictive! bah

 

[obsolete]

Posts like this remind me of the newbs that couldn't even dream of playing on Monarch, who would just perm ally with the biggest civ, then let that civ ride them to victory. When the game was hence over, they'd post their results on the general forum regarding how great they skilfully played that game (patting their own backs), and rave how much they were tactical geniuses; all this despite their own play was even worse than the AI's.


Firaxis knows PA is a very large crush (and practically a cheat). This is precisely why it is turned off by default, despite the manual writes it up as though it were a standard feature. Beta testers found out pretty quick it is a HUGE game breaker.

 

[Squarg]

I remember a time when I was in the begginning of a space race with zara and despite me being ahead in techs it was obvious that he was going to win because of sheer production
I ended up signing a PA with him 5 turns before he launched the rocket