Permanent Alliances

[99wattr89]

I play with them allowed, but none of the AI leaders have ever wanted to ally themselves with me, until now.

I had a defensive pact with Catherine, who was a little behind in power, and was eager to sign it since I was first, and when the second most powerful civ attacked me suddenly the 'Permanent Alliance' option opened up between her and I.

I saved and stopped there rather than deciding whether to accept, and I'm not sure what to do. I'm pretty much certain to win at this stage, but I like playing on to the end, to get a modern army before finishing off my rivals.

So, would it be a good idea to accept the alliance, or are there drawbacks?

I'm also wondering if anyone else has ever made permanent alliances with AIs.

 

[Yared]

Wouldn't yours and hers scores merge?

 

[Openfire]

I allied with Saladin last game. Its all good, you should accept. Saladin complete my rocket(not that I couldn't do it on my own.)

Honestly I think that perma alliances are kind of cheap since I don't think the AIs ever make them with each other, and you become incredibly powerful with them.

 

[99wattr89]

Wouldn't yours and hers scores merge?

I tried it, and they didn't.

I allied with Saladin last game. Its all good, you should accept. Saladin complete my rocket(not that I couldn't do it on my own.)

Honestly I think that perma alliances are kind of cheap since I don't think the AIs ever make them with each other, and you become incredibly powerful with them.

It's definitely rare, but I remember that it happened once in a game I played.


I'm just wary since there's no way to get out of it once you say yes, and AI allies can behave in very annoying ways at times, like settling a prime spot a turn before you.

 

[dwaxe]

I tried it, and they didn't.



It's definitely rare, but I remember that it happened once in a game I played.


I'm just wary since there's no way to get out of it once you say yes, and AI allies can behave in very annoying ways at times, like settling a prime spot a turn before you.

Even more annoying is when they gift all your techs to your vassals.

 

[99wattr89]

Even more annoying is when they gift all your techs to your vassals.

Urgh, yeah, I knew there would be a catch. xP

I guess I'll probably turn her down, she's annoying anyway, always pestering me to go to war and hating me just because I don't want to die for her. B****.

 

[Kierkegaard]

I had already much permanent allies. You have to be friendly with them + have a defense pact for long time or shared a war for a long time.

The scores doesn't really merge. You're bassicly still 2 different civilizations, but you have them like a puppet on a string.

 

[Racsoviale]

I have had a game with a friend where he made a permanent alliance with Montezuma in the next turn Ragnar and Pacal made a permanent alliance....It was quite scary to be the only nation without a big war ally.
I do somehow think you would be better off agreeing with a permanent alliance with Catherine, because we all know how reliable she is on friendly in that way you would eliminate any chance of her sneak-attacking you in the back as she tends to do.

Note: in multiplayer you cannot initiate dialogue or even open the diplomacy screen of a human players AI buddy...took me some time to realize, I thought for sure that Montezuma had enough on his hands that moment

 

[glaivemaster]

If you get into a Permanent Alliance with Catherine, she becomes, basically, a part of your civilization. All of her cities and military units stay under her control (unfortunately), but all of her research beakers and technology automatically goes to you and vice versa (meaning if you both research the same tech it'll go faster), and you can tell her to research things. She'll give you all of her spare resources that you don't already own.

Her land and population are combined with yours for the purpose of Domination victories, your rockets are combined for the Space victory, and I imagine (though I'm not entirely sure) that you need 3 Legendary cities between you in order to get cultural victory. Her score is 'combined' with yours - it doesn't actually add together, but you'll notice on the score list at the side that your names are next to each other, and that your combined placement in the list is equal to your combined scores, not either of your single scores. In terms of a Time victory, your combined scores will be the ones used.

She also won't be able to declare war on anyone, since that decision is left entirely to you. Basically, the only problem with the arrangement is that she might give techs to other AI when you want to keep them to yourself, but with your new, doubled tech speed, this shouldn't be a real problem, since you'll be way ahead of most people in techs. Permanent Alliances are almost always worth doing (though bear in mind that you can only Ally with one person, so if you're grooming another for the role, you may want to leave it)

As for the AI making Permanent Alliances, I've seen it a lot. They tend to do it more often than I do (because of their different ways of diplomacy), and it makes for a fun game, if you can get your own ally (or if you're just that good, I suppose). I tend not to play with them allowed any more though, because of the number of times that the AI have teamed up and I can't because everyone hates me

 

[Feyd Rautha]

A couple unmentioned notes...
Play with "No Tech Brokering" to prevent rampant AI tech giveouts. Unless they research it they cannot give it away. I guess with Permanent Alliances on you are technically researching it together, but since a bunch of pre-reqs are likely going to be backfilled for your new ally they won't be able to gift those to "backward" nations.

Also, note that any continental wonders affect your allies cities on the same continent. This is great in a game where you've claimed every major wonder just to deny your opponents as your new buddy gets a boatload of new buffs (Pentagon, Three Gorges, etc.)

 

[Malchar]

Has it always been the case that the AI alliance member cannot declare war? I thought that I have had it happen to me where my partner declares war. Also, there must be diplomatic drawbacks if other civilizations dislike your new partner, right?

 

[ladedadedum]

Has it always been the case that the AI alliance member cannot declare war? I thought that I have had it happen to me where my partner declares war. Also, there must be diplomatic drawbacks if other civilizations dislike your new partner, right?

you must be thinking of defensive pact. I've never had it happen where an AI with a permanent alliance with me declared war on a third party.

 

[The Snug]

A PA can declare peace with your enemy.

A few other notes, after signing a PA, the research you need to discover a tech is doubled. Also, they can start building wonders and space ship parts before you can, thus locking you out. The bad part about that is, they tend to build them slower than you would. I had it in a game once where we needed just 1 more space ship part, but my PA locked me out and it was going to take them 200 turns to build it, when I could've built it in 50 turns.