Permanent ally for city-states

[Trumtram]

Hello everyone,

I've been a reader of this forum for years now and also an immense fan of this mod. I wouldn't play Civ5 at all anymore without it. THANK YOU to everyone who made (and still makes) this mod possible. It's the definitive version of the game for me. I'm glad to finally give some kudos to all of you!

A couple of days ago I had an idea for allying city-states. Upfront: Please excuse me if this idea got brought up before or it is just stupid. I'm a more casual player and kind of admire all the deep thoughts many of you bring up while analyzing ideas. So here it goes...

One thing that annoys me throughout a game of Vox Populi is the constant need for maintaining an allied status with city-states. Especially when there are many city-states in the game it becomes a bit too tedious for my liking to constantly check all the quests and get diplomatic units out and what not (hello all you statecraft Civs!).
My possible solution to make this process a bit more fun is a sort of permanent ally status which you can obtain by being allied to a certain city-state for a certain number of turns without interruption. Basically giving you "Sphere of Influence" status without the use of the World Congress.

Let's say this ability is locked behind a tech (or building like the Scriveners Office) after which it is possible to get permanent ally status. Once you've been allied to a city-state for X turns after unlocking that ability it is basically yours and no one can take it from you (except for war, of course, or maybe the use of a Great Diplomat?).

Why is this good?
- From a realistic point of view it makes certain sense that a city-state would agree to be kind of a "permanent ally" to you when you two have been allied for centuries.
- It would free up spies which (at least in my games) tend to be placed in city-states for the influence gain which lends itself quite well to the reworked spy system (which makes spying on other Civs so much more fun!)
- There would still be a "diplomatic" war for the influence of other (non permanently allied) city-states. On one hand to deny other Civs the permanent ally status, on the other hand to get it for yourself.
- You don't have to make sure that the one city-state near you switches sides all the time way earlier if you decide to go for it.
- There would be more geographic alliances between Civs and city-states around them.

A consequence of this idea would be the exclusion of the "Sphere of Influence" because its function would be negated. I (the casual dude) like to get "Spheres" later on to finally being able to maintain my city-state allies. The proposals could be used for something else then.

I have no idea how this might work from a coding point of view and what it entails but in my head it seems like a nice idea to think about. Thank you for reading this (very rough) draft and I'm looking forward to the thoughts of all the experts around here .

 

[greenfieldpark]

IMa have to disagree on this one.
Theres alot going on with this mod. Its sometimes hard to focus on everything, so you are suggesting dumbing one of the focuses down to make it simpler.

However i could make the same case for religious conversions, spying or various other gameplay concepts.

DIfferent people, civs, ais will choose to focus hard on one or two gameplay strategies to achieve their end goal, and neglect others.

When it comes to city state allies id suggest you simply focus on a couple city states. Send ur spies and diplomats there and ignore the other ones since this isnt your favored gameplay strategy.

Or play as greece or another city state favoring civ to fully embrace and experience a new way to play.

 

[Trumtram]

Thank you for the feedback! Yeah, I guess it would be "dumbing down" this element of the game a bit but I feel like it would change the dynamic to a more "enjoyable" (for lack of better word) experience overall. You'd still have to check on alliances with city-states and send over diplomats / do quests to even have a chance to get my proposed permanent alliance. I guess a big problem with my idea is the lacking need for quests in "permanently allied" city-states. I mean, they could still work, just without the influence gain. Depending on how this WOULD be implemented, of course.

About the religious conversions: This feels a lot less problematic to me personally with inquisitors in each city and having good faith output (at this stage of the game) to quickly rectify any conversions. A conversion with missionaries usually takes a lot longer than a change in alliance for city-states. Again, not a pro/deity-player.

Oh, and I usually focus only on a couple of city-states. It just gets a bit tedious during a playthrough. But you are right, that this could entirely be on my part.

 

[Bryan317]

First of all don't feel your input is stupid. This community is very approachable and even if you are in a minority your ideas get everyone brainstorming.

I do have to disagree. CS alliances is a victory path. But it's not the only one. There is another way. Invasion. You are correct they are difficult to maintain alliances. They should be. This is the peaceful alternative to annexation. In fact I'm running into this now in my current playthrough. The front runner is a CS hog. He's going for CS that are obviously close to me and not him. I managed to steal one that was achievable with a great diplomat. The other required 250+ influence. I finally made the decision... just take it. He's now Hostile but hasn't declared outright war. It even angered my closest ally. "Sorry, my affairs are not your concern."

Now don't get me wrong this is Diety and it wasn't a light decision. This will definitely set the stage for the first World War. But I now have Whales and Porcelain with no diplomats needed

 

[greenfieldpark]

First of all don't feel your input is stupid. This community is very approachable and even if you are in a minority your ideas get everyone brainstorming.

I do have to disagree. CS alliances is a victory path. But it's not the only one. There is another way. Invasion. You are correct they are difficult to maintain alliances. They should be. This is the peaceful alternative to annexation. In fact I'm running into this now in my current playthrough. The front runner is a CS hog. He's going for CS that are obviously close to me and not him. I managed to steal one that was achievable with a great diplomat. The other required 250+ influence. I finally made the decision... just take it. He's now Hostile but hasn't declared outright war. It even angered my closest ally. "Sorry, my affairs are not your concern."

Now don't get me wrong this is Diety and it wasn't a light decision. This will definitely set the stage for the first World War. But I now have Whales and Porcelain with no diplomats needed

These are the decisions that you are forced to make that make this game great .

 

[Bryan317]

Oh and make sure to demand tribute before declaring war

 

[myclan]

Though I don't agree with your idea, I strongly understand your feeling when AI tries to steal a CS from me, which had been allied for a very long time. Luckily the latest patch has already removed the Coup Action of CS, which will certainly make the things better.