permanent borders
- Thread starter metsfan33
- Start date
helpless_writer
Warlord
I think there should definitely be an option to have either a disputed claim status on an area or else through pay off or diplomacy end any type of problems.
But really I don't think our close borders spark tensions should exist anymore. Or if they do it should end in the modern era with a final call. Kinda like either we meet to an agreement or a standoff ensues... Maybe Cold War type of events.
But really I don't think our close borders spark tensions should exist anymore. Or if they do it should end in the modern era with a final call. Kinda like either we meet to an agreement or a standoff ensues... Maybe Cold War type of events.
Suho1004
Warlord
I think the whole "our close borders spark tensions" thing is triggered by aggressive settling--one civilization founding cities very close to another civ's borders, usually in an attempt to gain control of land and/or resources. It's not the existence of this diplomatic modifier in Civ4 that bothers me, it's the fact that the AI will settle close to your borders and then get annoyed at you because "our close borders spark tensions."
I've heard it mentioned in a couple of interviews that the AI will be more aware of aggressive settling and maybe even call the player on it. All I can hope is that the AI will be able to determine when it is the aggressor. As of now in Civ4, it feels like every civ that borders me is channeling North Korea.
I've heard it mentioned in a couple of interviews that the AI will be more aware of aggressive settling and maybe even call the player on it. All I can hope is that the AI will be able to determine when it is the aggressor. As of now in Civ4, it feels like every civ that borders me is channeling North Korea.
the343danny
Emperor
Hmm? I was pretty sure that you can negotiate tile ownership with the AI, which I read from somewhere.
Suho1004
Warlord
I've heard that you can spend money to expand your borders to a given tile, but I don't know about negotiations... that would be interesting.
CTH
Prince
I think it could be a good diplomatic option to be able to agree with another player to have fixed borders towrads them, in other words, culture cant take over that players borders, it should be cancleable and the AI wouldnt agree to it if he had a bad cultural position.
Ahriman
Tyrant
No. The only value of culture in-game is expanding borders. We need culture to have in-game value. Hence, removing its ability to expand borders would make culture useless.
Besides, in any given location, one faction is likely to be increasing culture faster than the other. So any time one faction was willing to sign such an agreement (the one with slower culture growth), the other player wouldn't be willing to sign.
And the whole point of "our close borders spark tension" is to make wars more likely between neighbors than between non-adjacent nations. Which we also want for gameplay purposes.
I think it's a good idea. If one can sell/buy lands, then having a treaty that lets you fix borders is just a kind of preemptive sale. You can still cancel the treaty and thus flip cities. It would likely be cause for a war declaration and the ai would have to handle it smartly, though.
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
So basically you do not understand the rules and then get annoyed when the rules are applied?
Close border tension arises when enough border tiles are shared between you and a neighbor. It matter little who settles where, and who the aggressive settler is. As soon as enough borders touch there is border tension. So you may as well settle in the face of the AI, unless you think the AI may indeed declare war over it when you are not ready for it. Aggressive AI's may indeed declare war once you settle close and become a viable target. Peaceful AI's that do not declare each and every game care little about borders, and you may as well settle next to them. Eventually there will be border tension anyway.
CTH
Prince
It is pretty realistic that there is the possibility to have fixed borders between countries, it is not like borders changes today if you are influenced by another countries culture. And just because culture dont have so many other functions in civ4 doenst mean that it couldnt have more functions in civ5.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Gameplay >> realism.
What is the point of culture if you just sign an agreement so that it doesn't matter anymore?
What is the point of culture if you just sign an agreement so that it doesn't matter anymore?
Forcing the opponent to give you gold to keep their land which you could flip - maybe he's better off with a production tile you don't need (or can't work for lack of population...) but you can get gold from him by letting him keep it.
Also, backstabbing/surprise attacks?
Ahriman
Tyrant
How can you force them? An optimal AI would only sign the treaty if its in their interest.
[An optimal AI is a fiction though. In reality it would be very hard to get an AI that would understand whether or not it should sign such a treaty - and how much gold they would be willing to pay to sign such a treaty.]
Besides, it already sounds like you'll be able to trade land, so its much cleaner if you just use culture to take their tiles, then sell it back to them.
No idea what you mean here. How is this related to culture?
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
How would being able to turn a strong cultural presence into hard cash - by demanding cash to sign fixed borders agreements with culturally weaker neighbours - devalue culture or make it useless? It would still be possible to make use of culture like always - just refuse to sign any fixed borders agreements.
Ahriman
Tyrant
See above.
It is very difficult for the AI to evaluate the relative value of signing such a treaty. If you want gold instead of land from culture, it is much simpler to take the land with culture and then sell it back to them.
Its much easier to create an AI that understands the value of land than to create an AI that understands how to value cultural pressure in terms of gold.
Thyrwyn
Guardian at the Gate
We don't even know if culture will be in the game! And you are arguing that we "need it"?
Civ 5 !=Civ IV
Civ 5 !=Civ IV
Ahriman
Tyrant
Yes we do. Developers have clearly announced that culture expands borders, but does so one tile at a time, rather than in entire radius jumps.
We've also seen screenshots of the main screen with culture icons.
So we know culture is in, and its purpose is to increase your territory. Hence, a mechanic that cancels out the value of culture entirely would be very strange.
