Persian UHV Working

HoriujiMan

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
52
Well, I finally got it done but only down on Viceroy. This is with the shrines in Delhi.

If someone could let me know how to paste in screenshots into a post, I'll put up some useful shots to see if anyone thinks it is possible to do it on a higher difficulty level.
 


Some Observations

I think you must build the shrines in Delhi. Yerushalayim is under too much pressure from desertions or possible attacks (although the Arabs seem to go after Babili and Shush more than Yerushalayim). Even so, every turn you will lose one or two garrison units in the city.

The Great Wall is essential by no later than 500 AD so you can focus on dealing only with Arabia. Also, be nice to Rome - you need to hold Greece. I've had Rome land amphibious forces and take out Athens sometimes.

Getting 7 wonders or the 2 shrines is not a real problem if you plan correctly. You have to make sure you have the right wonder/temple mix to insure the GP for the shrines. The tough part is the 8%. I think my spread of cities is the most efficient, but someone might be able to improve on it.

Again this is in Viceroy. Monarchy results in Babylonia being too tough to deal with quickly. Once you get bogged down anywhere, you really have no chance.
 
Well done! An empire even more great and beautiful than Cyrus's.

I like how you finished in 710 AD at 7:10 AM. Nice touch.
Any reason you didn't snag Makkah? I don't recall the year for getting 8%, so it may be after that.

Congratulations. Now to work on Monarch! :p
 
You have to get the 8% by 600 AD; Arabia spawns in 630 AD. So the first number of turns after Arabia spawns after you deny them cities is more or less defensive as your Elephants and Spears have to take out the bulk of the Camel Archers. So Makhah is not in the cards until after you stabilize the situation.

I really think Monarchy is impossible. I've tried many times, but the key block is how developed Babylonia can be on Monarchy level. In addition to the Bowmen, you usually find cities with Spears and Walls; I think the Walls are more the killer than the occassional Spearman. Also, Monarchy puts you between the proverbial "rock and the hard place" because in Monarchy India is also more developed. Delhi usually has two Archers which requires four of the initial Immortals you get (rather than 2 or 3).

The timetable to get to 8% is tighter than hell. It's not just taking cities, but also having time enough for the cities to build culture spreading buildings (Libraries). I've been doing India->Babylonia->Egypt->Greece. Someone may see a more efficient way to do this, but you need India early enough to occupy the Indian subcontinent and Egypt early enough to occupy enough of East Africa.

I think the game posted above is an interesting position in which to try to stuff the Ottomans when they come along around 1000 AD. I played this until about 850 AD, made peace with Arabia and was getting set to take out Rome. I assume once Nationalism kicks in, Persia (a) will lose India, (b) will have to deal with revolts in Babili, and (c) probably can hold Greece, Rome, Turkey and Egypt until late in the game.
 
Beautiful looking empire :)
 
I went back once again to see if this could be done on Monarchy level. I still don't think so.

The problem about being bogged down in taking cities is more financial than anything else. If you build up some Cats to help take Babylonia, you don't take cities fast enough. If you don't take cities fast enough, you will run out of money and running in the red even with 0% research.

Again this is trying to find a more or less "fool proof" method. You can roll the dice and attack 4 fortified Bowmen with 6 Immortals and you may win occasionally. Just not everytime.

The Plague helps somewhat, particularly when you get down to Egypt. In three tries, only Egypt gets decimated making them a pushover. But by that time, you are out of money.

The money problem dents the time to get Construction, so very little barb Horse Archer protection with Elephants. And Calender (which you really need to keep cities happy with whipping and all) is just a distant dream. Usually I have Construction and Calender out of the way by the time I take down Egypt. In these runs, with research cranked down to 10%, Calender was light years away.
 
Congratulations ;) Just now I'm playing as a Rome with modded RFCW (REALLY small maintenance costs + 2 stability from courthouses). and I think that cities costs should be lessened (but maybe not as much as I did ;) )- real problem should be army to protect your big and beautiful civilization (and in many cases let you conquer other nations ;) ).
 
This thread inspired me to give the Persians a shot...

I've been playing with the Persians on Monarch now for about two weeks and I have to say: This UHV is REALLY hard, but I'm convinced it's possible...!

I agree with Horiujiman, the toughest part about the UHVs is the 8% of world territory by 600AD... The closest I've been able to make it to was about 7% but even then it was due to flukes via The Plague...

Here are some of my observations... Maybe this will help spur some interest in others playing as the Persians to get some more/better ideas...

1.) About 75% of the time, Babylon declares war right from the start and about half the time, their cities are defended with spearmen. The spearmen make short work of the immortals... However, when Babylon DOES declare war on you with the city flip, you get some extra immortals in Parsa... With enough immortals, and some good recon/attacks of the least defended cities, you can usually get Babylon to collapse.

2.) India is always my second objective. I've found that, once Babylon collapses, if you waste time grabbing up the independant cities, India gets too strong (especially if they make it as far as iron working...) Once you have Delhi, the UHV of having two religous shrines is pretty easy. I just build Hindu and Buddist temples in Delhi, hire some priests, and pump out GP's like they're going out of style...

3.) I don't beleive the Great Wall is necessary, but it is desired. I rather go to Calendar instead of Contruction to get the plantations... About this time, the economy is going downhill and the extra money is badly needed... Currency is also a priority for the same reason. To counter the barbarians, I built four or five spearmen to defend my northern most cities and the surrounding resources.

4.) Once the plague is modded (weakened), I don't know how good this will work, but I use it to my advantage. If you hold off on taking the coastal cities to the west (modern day isreal area), you remain fairly isolated from the plague. The few games I managed upwards of 7% world territory were from ravaging plague stricken Egypt...

I'm hoping someone here might have some other ideas to get that 8%... By the time I get around to having swordsmen and catapults to go after the Greek cities, it's pretty much too late for the goal... And getting around to capturing Egypt is almost entirely luck-of-the-plague... I'm going to keep trying though, I have a few more ideas to try and I'm very determined, but one of the major hurdles (other than time) is the economy. Having so many cities without the time to build them up properly really does some damage... Stability isn't a problem though... The Persian UP makes sure the empire stays ROCK SOLID through the whole game...

Please give Persia a try on Monarch and post your thoughts...
 
I just tried a Persian game on Monarch and had a fairly similar experience. I came almost close to the land but ultimately failed somewhat spectacularly.

Babylon is obviously the first target; and with the extra 4 immortals from them declaring war I made fairly short work of them. I got lucky: they didn't have any spearmen, and there were 3 bowmen in Babil and only 1 (!) in Ninua. Ur was another matter; they hired an Impi mercenary so I didn't take that until long after the rest of Babylon and India had fallen to me.

India had a handy three cities which fell rather quickly, and by the time I had finished with them I had also razed the barb cities in Anatolia and resettled at better sites. By then the plague was ravaging Egypt and Greece, but not me, by some fluke. So as soon as the immortals were in position I seized Egypt fairly effortlessly, although I didn't quite grab Abdju (and never did). Greece was harder: after a few immortal rushes Athens fell and the civ collapsed; but I never took Sparta because the region was so remote. I also had to found Byzantium on my own; the Greeks were playing a sloppy game.

However, that's where I stalled. Up to that point, I had succeeded entirely on massive Immortal rushes primarily starting from Shush, Nineveh, and Babel (Parsa was churning out wonders and spearmen to protect from the upcoming barb threat). However, by then only Rome and Carthage remained in the West and both were too strong and too far away to conquer without an actual balanced army--which moved too slowly to afford.

By this time I had made a few other mistakes--I had researched Theology instead of something actually useful, and hence had four holy cities (Delhix2, Jerusalem, and Artacoana, the barb choke point). Of course, because I had Delhi churning out wonders instead of temples, I never ended up with ANY great prophets. Whoops! Too bad, because they could have saved my economy.

My land at this point was largely undeveloped--I had a strong road network and vital resources were hooked up, but no city was at its full potential; I was too busy barreling ahead and conquering. I knew this would be a problem eventually, but hoped that I could reach my goals before then. But no. When conquest stalled after taking Athens and Egypt, the economy, sustained almost entirely by plunder, began to hemorrhage. I was losing about 50 to 70 gold a turn, and even with a 700 gold war chest that doesn't last long.

Bankruptcy ensued and the army gradually died off. At this point I began to focus on saving the economy and building wonders (particularly Colossus, Artemis and Lighthouse). Nothing was enough.

Eventually the plague hit and ripped me apart. It was all I could do to hold the barbs off Egypt and Samarkand, and eventually I couldn't do it. I lost Delhi (obviously a core city) and hence had no chance.

<b>BUG</b>Barbs took Delhi, but as soon as the resistance ended, the city IMMEDIATELY flipped back to me. I was happy until I noticed something: ALL of its wonders had disappeared. Oracle, Parthenon, Artemis--all gone forever. Any idea what happened?

I hung on until 550 and then switched to the Vikings.

Since then the AI has held the imperial core together, but the Arabs and Turks have taken out the western chunk. Persia is still #1 and has made the game since then a lot of fun, since there were at the Vikings spawn only 5 civs instead of 9. :)

So, yeah. I screwed up big, but I do think it's doable. I had almost 7% of the land, and had I taken Abdju and razed Sparta, with another city in the Caucasus or India, I could have made the land goal. The Prophets are easier, I just did it wrong. The wonders are quite easy; Parsa and Nineveh have very high production, as does a well-placed city in Anatolia. It can be done on Monarch.. but by a greater leader than I.
 
Ugh! I know how you feel... The Persian UHV is fustrating... I made it to 7.6&#37; this morning, thanks to a "lucky" plague... Peria seems pretty isolated from the plague in most games I play. I think I've only caught it once or twice... This morning, I was able to grab Babylon, India, Egypt, and most of Greece... It just wasn't enough... So close though... The economy is the problem... I had all of my cities running wealth and I was still burning through 5-10 gold a turn with my science at 0%... I figure as long as you're able to conquer cities, you have to keep it up, the plunder is what keeps you alive... I plan on trying again late tonight, maybe more workers/city improvements (cottages hard core), a little less military, and some luckier battle results will get me through...
 
Well, I have tried Monarchy on and off. I'm not the best at this, but here are my "tips" of what I think you need to do.

The Immortals Are Your Friends - Yeah, a lot of people complain about the weakness of the Immortals, but they are in large part your only shot at this. Speed. Cheapness (cheaper than Archers). Pump out a lot. Burn defensive units with newly built Immortals and get a batch of three or four level promotion Immortals.

Go India and Don't Wait - In the first few moves, I move four Immortals to the India border whether or not Babylonia declares war. Take India down before Babylonia. Use Delhi to produce Settlers where needed and Elephants for later. You need the jump on adding a few cities with new settlers which just cannot wait for Babylonia to be conquered.

Switch to Cats After You Build a Core Group of Immortals - You need a group of Cats to take down Greece. Again, speed is the thing so once you have say 10 or 12 good Immortals, switch to Cats and start moving them towards Greece. You can manage Babylonia and Egypt on Immortals alone. And, build about 4 Axes to handle the Impi in Egypt.

Construction - Well the Great Wall may be an option, but Elephants have a better defensive value than the Spears. One or two can handle any barbs from up north and one in Delhi is sufficient in case someone slips through. If things go well, you send an Elephant or two to grab the SE Asia jungle places. The Great Wall just relieves military pressure so you can focus on knocking back Arabia after they spawn. And, the Elephants handle Camel Archers pretty well.

Money - You have to conquer to keep the coffers full. After you get Construction and Calender, techs don't matter for the UHV. Calender is needed to keep everyone reasonably happy, especially if you have to whip out some stuff. You have no time to rely on cottage building to balance the budget.
 
Money - You have to conquer to keep the coffers full. After you get Construction and Calender, techs don't matter for the UHV. Calender is needed to keep everyone reasonably happy, especially if you have to whip out some stuff. You have no time to rely on cottage building to balance the budget.

Quoted for truth. I was well on my way to meeting the UHV but had to stop because my economy was shot and I had 5-6 units being disbanded every turn. Stop and you're done.
 
On the money thing, you have to also try to get Currency (after Calender). Then you can set some cities to just producing wealth with no development. This offsets the cash drain a bit, but only a little. If you plan your wonders right, you may have a shot of getting Currency via a GP boost.

And in terms of the next question: What do I do with all my Workers if I don't build cottages? My view is you need to dedicate them to building roads after the necessary resources are developed. Roads are the only other thing that really helps in terms of speeding Settlers and troops to desired locations and connecting cities for modest trade boosts.

Finally, when you get to the 8&#37; (and remember, I have only done it on Viceroy, but close on Monarchy), by around 600 AD you can start stabilizing the economic situation. By that time you should have the Wonders and Shrines built. The period between 600 AD and 700 AD should be devoted to careful improvement; i.e., almost half the cities on wealth generation while others build markets and courthouses, assuming you have enough defensive forces to hold off the Arabia crush.
 
Ugh... I'm so angry... I've never spent this much time trying to win a UHV... I made it to 7.92&#37; of land area by the time limit... JUST NOT ENOUGH... The other two goals are easy. Capturing Delhi and building temples/priests there get you the two religous shrines easy... Getting all the wonders isn't hard either since they come with the conquests... That land area thing is SO DIFFICULT...

I've decided that Construction isn't worth it... Calendar might not be either... Currency is a must. After Ironworking(? I'm starting to question that one too, since swords are too expensive), I get mathmatics for the cats... I think currency should be next... The past few games I went to construction for the elephants, but I don't see the point. They are more expensive than swords and 2 or 3 fortified spearmen (per city) in the north keep the barbarians at bay just fine... Calendar is pointless too... The resources take too long to develop and connect and a few military units in the cities (with monarchy) keep the people happy... With currency (I'm going to give this a shot later...) I think I'd be able to use my huge military threat to extort money from other civs... Hopefully that will give me a little time to conquer greece before the disbanding begins...
 
Ironworking is useless since the Swords are too slow. I tried bee lining to Currency a couple of times, but always found that Calender was more important. I agree with you on Construction somewhat, but I liked the Great Wall and Elephants.

I tried a few more times on Monarchy and I think this is one UHV where luck is a bigger part than it should be. My ranges on land were between 7.3 and 7.9%. You got me motivated to try a few more times.
 
Still trying to get this done on Monarchy...

Maybe it was just bad luck, but in Turn 104 after taking Ninua, the plague struck everything in the area from Babili to Parsa wiping out the best of the Immortals I had built up. Ugh.
 
I know, it's bothering me too... I've never had this much trouble... I went a different route this afternoon at work, I selectivly conquered the cities in the world that had the world wonders I would need for the other victory condition and MAXED the culture out the best I could in those cities... I figure if I could cuturally convert the lesser cities nearby, I could conquer more of the world with less of a military, since the huge military required to conquer "everyone and everything" is one factor that kills the economy... I came closer than I thought I would with this strategy, 6.89&#37; by the deadline, but I was a much healthier empire than I normally am... However, it was the first time I've ever got my stabilty to "stable." I've never been anything but "very solid" with Persia... I'm wondering if the use of this "selective attack" strategy could work if I went about it just a little more aggressivly... I mean, I made 6.89% with only conquering 6 cities, the rest flipped to me...

I think the 8% HAS to come down to luck though... A plague at the wrong time is a *****, trust me, I've been there... Combat rolls are especially important too... I was so upset today after losing FOUR immortals to a lone defending archer of Niwt-rst hat I had a 86% chance of beating... Talk about bad luck... Minor setbacks like that add up...
 
Well, it's one thing that makes this mod very very good. Things don't often repeat exactly the same way. The luck part (or just change in events) seems to have a bigger impact than what you can do - so, at least for Persia, there may be no set way.

Just started another run where Babylonia was gone (replaced by barbs). I thought this would be a cakewalk until I walked into the killer Spearmen hordes from Egypt. The most unusual game I've played; Ramses on steroids. I was starting to take care of them when Alexander decided to declare war with his own killer Skirmishers Phalanx combo hordes. Very funny. I guess Greece was so wealthy they could hire every Skirmisher merc available - nice three and four promotion mercs. Ugh.

I tried to Currency alternative bee line a few times. It detracts from building enough of a rush of Immortals to keep taking cities I think.
 
Well, it's one thing that makes this mod very very good. Things don't often repeat exactly the same way. The luck part (or just change in events) seems to have a bigger impact than what you can do ...






Not sure how that city got there, but there it is.
 
That one's pretty funny. Like the lost settler from somewhere...China? Or perhaps a goodie hut released a settler. I often find a Chinese scout in the area when Persia spawns.
 
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