Personal Thoughts/Review on Basic Community Patch

[Fatheredpuma81]

Not sure if this is where this should be posted but oh well.
So I should probably start this off by saying I installed the 43-Civ Vox Populi (EUI) version as the other mods looked interesting and I did not play with the Balance Patch. Sadly the only mod you can enable without the Balance Patch is the 43 Civ mod which does not work properly as it references the Luxury mod which was a let down. On top of this you cannot download and enable the non-Vox Populi version of the mods due to them both disabling the ability and likely incompatibilities. So this is just going to be my thoughts on the Basic Community Patch which is supposed to improve the AI, fix bugs, and apparently troll players?

I downloaded this mod because I did not like the insane buffs the Immortal AI gets that requires you to bee-line for things and pray the AI do not want them. I decided to try a Babylon extreme science easy to punish game on Emperor to see how the AI would do.

Quick Summary of my game:
I got a glorious Petra start that screamed "You should be playing the Netherlands" with a lot of desert flood plains and enough room to settle 4 cities (including capital) in the desert. I Great Library'd into National College into Petra on 1 city and then settled 2 cities in the desert and 1 in the jungle. The game went extremely fast. Before I knew it I had an Idealogy via Oxfording into Radio and chose Order without knowing if I had coal. I then had to settle what I assumed was a temporary city for coal which I had planned to sell to any of the 3 AI bordering it. Sadly the AI didn't want the city for even free (despite the fact they could just raze it...) so I declared war hoping 1 of them would take it or I could at least give it to them in the peace deal. I then found out you could not make anything other than white peace for god knows why, decided that was the last straw, and quit.
The AI did jack all throughout the game as I sat on 2 Bowman (later comps and then xbows) and 1 Spearman (later a pike) through the entire game with my neighbors being Carthage, Arabia Spain, Ottomans, and Poland with Rome having to go through Carthage to get to me. The only AI that "rivaled" me in tech was Polynesia (not really though).

Good things:
AI maybe knows how to fight?
AI know who the real tech leader is and will mass steal from them (or maybe just spy on the player by default?). Not sure if this is a vanilla thing.
Events are nice.
AI no longer has a fixed price for everything.

Issues:
Barbarians know how to fight... literally spent half the early game healing my scouts...
AI units still have an obsession with lakes and oceans.
War Civs are incredibly passive.
War Civs will open and finish Honor... and not go to war...
From what I can tell AI will research everything in an era before moving on.
Most AI doesn't try to compete with tech or do really anything.
Carthage thinks a 6 pop capital is fine apparently...
AI rarely ally's the player (had 1 ally for the first 100 turns).
AI no longer fix deals when you ask them to in the trade menu.
sIR wE HaD ANotHer FlOoD!

Trolls:
AI will offer you stupid deals wanting you to pay them 5 gold for Open Borders.
AI will still offer you deals they won't accept.
AI will at complete random will steal your money when you make a trade with them. Sold Iron to Poland for 2 GPT each and they instead somehow took 5 GPT from me and I ended up going from +30GPT to -8. Posted about this on the Workshop mod's comment section and Gazebo the one who uploaded it said that it's intended because the AI doesn't like me or doesn't need it. So I assume this is just a middle finger to all those who want to micromanage their economy?

Neutral:
AI has new lines that are very aggressive.
Great Engineers are instant.

 

[Gazebo]

Not sure if this is where this should be posted but oh well.
So I should probably start this off by saying I installed the 43-Civ Vox Populi (EUI) version as the other mods looked interesting and I did not play with the Balance Patch. Sadly the only mod you can enable without the Balance Patch is the 43 Civ mod which does not work properly as it references the Luxury mod which was a let down. On top of this you cannot download and enable the non-Vox Populi version of the mods due to them both disabling the ability and likely incompatibilities. So this is just going to be my thoughts on the Basic Community Patch which is supposed to improve the AI, fix bugs, and apparently troll players?

I downloaded this mod because I did not like the insane buffs the Immortal AI gets that requires you to bee-line for things and pray the AI do not want them. I decided to try a Babylon extreme science easy to punish game on Emperor to see how the AI would do.

Quick Summary of my game:
I got a glorious Petra start that screamed "You should be playing the Netherlands" with a lot of desert flood plains and enough room to settle 4 cities (including capital) in the desert. I Great Library'd into National College into Petra on 1 city and then settled 2 cities in the desert and 1 in the jungle. The game went extremely fast. Before I knew it I had an Idealogy via Oxfording into Radio and chose Order without knowing if I had coal. I then had to settle what I assumed was a temporary city for coal which I had planned to sell to any of the 3 AI bordering it. Sadly the AI didn't want the city for even free (despite the fact they could just raze it...) so I declared war hoping 1 of them would take it or I could at least give it to them in the peace deal. I then found out you could not make anything other than white peace for god knows why, decided that was the last straw, and quit.
The AI did jack all throughout the game as I sat on 2 Bowman (later comps and then xbows) and 1 Spearman (later a pike) through the entire game with my neighbors being Carthage, Arabia Spain, Ottomans, and Poland with Rome having to go through Carthage to get to me. The only AI that "rivaled" me in tech was Polynesia (not really though).

Good things:
AI maybe knows how to fight?
AI know who the real tech leader is and will mass steal from them (or maybe just spy on the player by default?). Not sure if this is a vanilla thing.
Events are nice.
AI no longer has a fixed price for everything.

Issues:
Barbarians know how to fight... literally spent half the early game healing my scouts...
AI units still have an obsession with lakes and oceans.
War Civs are incredibly passive.
War Civs will open and finish Honor... and not go to war...
From what I can tell AI will research everything in an era before moving on.
Mod tries to balance some things such as Great War Infantry despite saying it does not.
Most AI doesn't try to compete with tech or do really anything.
Carthage thinks a 6 pop capital is fine apparently...
AI rarely ally's the player (had 1 ally for the first 100 turns).
AI no longer fix deals when you ask them to in the trade menu.
sIR wE HaD ANotHer FlOoD!

Trolls:
AI will offer you stupid deals wanting you to pay them 5 gold for Open Borders.
AI will still offer you deals they won't accept.
AI will at complete random will steal your money when you make a trade with them. Sold Iron to Poland for 2 GPT each and they instead somehow took 5 GPT from me and I ended up going from +30GPT to -8. Posted about this on the Workshop mod's comment section and Gazebo the one who uploaded it said that it's intended because the AI doesn't like me or doesn't need it. So I assume this is just a middle finger to all those who want to micromanage their economy?

Neutral:
AI has new lines that are very aggressive.
Great Engineers are instant.

First, thanks for trying the mod.

The CP doesn’t touch balance, so your points about balance aren’t relative the conversation.

The issues you describe sound like mod conflict issues - I assume you unsubscribed from the workshop version before installing the CP? Also, other mods with a DLL will overwrite the CP.

I also never said that the AI ‘stealing GPT’ was intended or by design. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

G

 

[Omen of Peace]

The "steal your money" thing is clearly a bug, if true. Are you sure the gold variation wasn't tied to something else? (another deal expiring...)

Please go to Github and file a bug report, providing a save (e.g. before and after the deal).

I recommend trying the whole Vox Populi package, but it's a fairly different game (no more 1 strategy to win - National College into snowball...).

 

[tu_79]

I recommend trying the whole Vox Populi package, but it's a fairly different game (no more 1 strategy to win - National College into snowball...).

I felt this strategy to be a little alien by now. Nowadays I'd only rush great library if I really wanted to skip the early game and was sure that my neighbours will be conceding me a peaceful time.

 

[Fatheredpuma81]

First, thanks for trying the mod.

The CP doesn’t touch balance, so your points about balance aren’t relative the conversation.

The issues you describe sound like mod conflict issues - I assume you unsubscribed from the workshop version before installing the CP? Also, other mods with a DLL will overwrite the CP.

I also never said that the AI ‘stealing GPT’ was intended or by design. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

G

Sorry I was miss-remembering about Great War Infantry. I thought they were 60 combat strength not 50.
I never installed the Workshop version I just chose that as the easiest location for a quick complaint while playing the mod. The only mods I have/had installed were EUI, Infoaddicts, and the Base Community Patch from the forum.
Attached screenshot of our conversation where I stated that I lost 5 gold every time I sold them iron for 2 gold and you stated this was because they did not like me. I will be first to admit I could have gone about it in a better way though.

The "steal your money" thing is clearly a bug, if true. Are you sure the gold variation wasn't tied to something else? (another deal expiring...)

Please go to Github and file a bug report, providing a save (e.g. before and after the deal).

I recommend trying the whole Vox Populi package, but it's a fairly different game (no more 1 strategy to win - National College into snowball...).

I can provide the Before save but not so much the after save. Every time I try to load the before save to make an after save the game simply closes. Even tried using my backup copy of Civ and it still crashes... attached save. Could please check if you can get it to load with the Community Patch and Info addict and trade 1 iron to Poland for 2 GPT and see if it still happens. Thanks.

I'm more interested in finding a mod that makes the AI competitive in research and war while stopping them from doing absurd unit and wonder spam. I rarely do the all in research strat but I felt like seeing how the AI would react to the player going all in research with no defense which I was incredibly unimpressed at their lack of interest.

 

[Gazebo]

Sorry I was miss-remembering about Great War Infantry. I thought they were 60 combat strength not 50.
I never installed the Workshop version I just chose that as the easiest location for a quick complaint while playing the mod. The only mods I have/had installed were EUI, Infoaddicts, and the Base Community Patch from the forum.
Attached screenshot of our conversation where I stated that I lost 5 gold every time I sold them iron for 2 gold and you stated this was because they did not like me. I will be first to admit I could have gone about it in a better way though.



I can provide the Before save but not so much the after save. Every time I try to load the before save to make an after save the game simply closes. Even tried using my backup copy of Civ and it still crashes... attached save. Could please check if you can get it to load with the Community Patch and Info addict and trade 1 iron to Poland for 2 GPT and see if it still happens. Thanks.

I'm more interested in finding a mod that makes the AI competitive in research and war while stopping them from doing absurd unit and wonder spam. I rarely do the all in research strat but I felt like seeing how the AI would react to the player going all in research with no defense which I was incredibly unimpressed at their lack of interest.

My point re: AI opinion is that they will offer less gold if they dislike you. They’ll never steal gold. That’s probably a mod conflicts.

 

[Moi Magnus]

I can provide the Before save but not so much the after save. Every time I try to load the before save to make an after save the game simply closes. Even tried using my backup copy of Civ and it still crashes... attached save. Could please check if you can get it to load with the Community Patch and Info addict and trade 1 iron to Poland for 2 GPT and see if it still happens. Thanks.

Assuming it isn't a mod conflict with Info addict (which is possible, but it would be sad since I also use info addict), I've opened an issue here: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/5242
Do you know from which "date" your CP version is from. The version on steam is seriously out of date, so if that this one, you should upgrade to the one in the auto-installer.
And if you're using the auto-installer, which version of the auto-installer are you using?

 

[Damthe]

I'd like to add my experience to this aswell.

1) There are some balance changes in minor quest rewards and it's really frustrating that their values are higher then used to be from the base game.

2) On Deity barbarian spawn rate is literally insane and they only spawn hand axes from turn 1 and goes on, they don't start with warriors or such ? un intended maybe ?

3) Unit panel in the game doesn't respond to changes like fortify, alert etc. units will do what was told but cosmetic side doesn't react. (This is also an issue in Vox Populi)

4) Also AI will never take bribe to attack another civ or world congress vote( This is also presents in Vox Populi)

Edit: One more thing can't build citadels in enemy territory.

 

[Moi Magnus]

There are some balance changes in minor quest rewards and it's really frustrating that their values are higher then used to be from the base game.

On Deity barbarian spawn rate is literally insane and they only spawn hand axes from turn 1 and goes on, they don't start with warriors or such ? un intended maybe ?

Unit panel in the game doesn't respond to changes like fortify, alert etc. units will do what was told but cosmetic side doesn't react. (This is also an issue in Vox Populi)

Also AI will never take bribe to attack another civ or world congress vote( This is also presents in Vox Populi)

Edit: One more thing can't build citadels in enemy territory.

1) That's probably unintended.
2) Definitly uninteded.
3) I doubt it is intended.
4) You should be able to bribe / buy vote, however the windows may be rare an short, so unless you check every turn, you will probably never have the opportunity. But it is definitly possible. I'm not sure current behavior is intended, though.
5) This one is probably the only one intended here. Though I'm not even sure it is.

@Gazebo, do you want me to make a Github issue for all of this?

 

[Omen of Peace]

3) perhaps a side effect of the VP Fortify change (you Fortify automatically if you haven't moved or attacked this round)

4) That does work in VP. You need a diplomat in their capital to pay for WC votes though.

 

[Damthe]

1) That's probably unintended.
2) Definitly uninteded.
3) I doubt it is intended.
4) You should be able to bribe / buy vote, however the windows may be rare an short, so unless you check every turn, you will probably never have the opportunity. But it is definitly possible. I'm not sure current behavior is intended, though.
5) This one is probably the only one intended here. Though I'm not even sure it is.

@Gazebo, do you want me to make a Github issue for all of this?

btw i'd like to add barbarians will spawn horseman and more advanced units once the necessery techs are researched but yeah they will start with hand axe with crazy spawn rate.

 

[Damthe]

3) perhaps a side effect of the VP Fortify change (you Fortify automatically if you haven't moved or attacked this round)

4) That does work in VP. You need a diplomat in their capital to pay for WC votes though.

i've only tried it with vassals may be thats why ? but if i demand them to vote for specific things they will do it but it still leaves the bribing for war.

 

[Gazebo]

I'd like to add my experience to this aswell.

1) There are some balance changes in minor quest rewards and it's really frustrating that their values are higher then used to be from the base game.

2) On Deity barbarian spawn rate is literally insane and they only spawn hand axes from turn 1 and goes on, they don't start with warriors or such ? un intended maybe ?

3) Unit panel in the game doesn't respond to changes like fortify, alert etc. units will do what was told but cosmetic side doesn't react. (This is also an issue in Vox Populi)

4) Also AI will never take bribe to attack another civ or world congress vote( This is also presents in Vox Populi)

Edit: One more thing can't build citadels in enemy territory.

1.) Minor Civ Quest rewards are identical to vanilla - what you're probably experiencing is the missing speed scaling - some of them had it, others didn't (this was a vanilla bug) so I fixed that.
2.) Spawn rate doesn't care about difficulty, it's always the same.
3.) This was a bugfix for an exploit related to some API added things related to fortifying or healing.
4.) They will, but they aren't idiots like they were in vanilla, and will only do it if it actually benefits them.
5.) This was an AI bugfix - because the AI was unable to correctly value these tiles and would often place them in ways that were unusable to the AI, we removed the ability.

G

 

[Fatheredpuma81]

Assuming it isn't a mod conflict with Info addict (which is possible, but it would be sad since I also use info addict), I've opened an issue here: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/5242
Do you know from which "date" your CP version is from. The version on steam is seriously out of date, so if that this one, you should upgrade to the one in the auto-installer.
And if you're using the auto-installer, which version of the auto-installer are you using?

The latest version installed from the Vox Populi auto-installer. In the mods menu it says "v. 89". I really hope it's not a conflict with InfoAddict. It luckily went away after a while as later in the game I was able to sell to Poland but I've been wary every since. Downloaded March, 23 2019.
Sorry for the late replies.

I'd like to add my experience to this aswell.

1) There are some balance changes in minor quest rewards and it's really frustrating that their values are higher then used to be from the base game.

2) On Deity barbarian spawn rate is literally insane and they only spawn hand axes from turn 1 and goes on, they don't start with warriors or such ? un intended maybe ?

3) Unit panel in the game doesn't respond to changes like fortify, alert etc. units will do what was told but cosmetic side doesn't react. (This is also an issue in Vox Populi)

4) Also AI will never take bribe to attack another civ or world congress vote( This is also presents in Vox Populi)

Edit: One more thing can't build citadels in enemy territory.

You also can't trade with the AI for peace even while putting pressure on their cities until you've taken a city...
I've also had the AI try and bribe me for like 1 GPT to vote for them...