PH13: The Book and the Hammer

[Quotey]

I don't think there is any debate, tbh. Everyone loves the Pyramids! I am not sure when and where to start them. It's what, 1800BC? An IND leader with Stone grabs them at around 800BC. I don't want to pull the cap off settlers, but buildings take a long time in new cities, never mind wonders. Perhaps chop/whip the settlers we need out of Hamburg after a Granary?

So I just started a debate for our Pyramid city? :O

 

[LKendter]

The debate is because I am still reading about getting more settlers out. Every addition settler puts the pyramids at risk.

The other reason is where to send the next settler. I've see comments about sending him north to claim near Gandhi. However, IMHO if we want the pyramids the stone and iron city (blue dot?) needs to be next. It will take time to get that stone on-line.

I don't want to play until there is a consensus where we want the next city.

 

[pholkhero]

I don't want to play until there is a consensus where we want the next city.

I agree that we should figure out where to go w/the next city before playing resumes.

As i've said, i'm in favor of a city right up near gandhi, to get teh pigs/iron/dye/bananas. I think we can get another settler out for blue dot and stone, and then get to work on the pyramids at taht point. I don't *think* that's too much time.

as i said, though, there *should* be more input before continuing ~

 

[mystyfly]

I'm definitely for cities > mids.

We will be at peace (mostly) until the industrial age. We should claim as much land as possible.
Maybe found 2 more cities blocking as much as possible, start mids and build some more settlers in our other cities. Chop as much as possible.

 

[r_rolo1]

More cities, definitely... this means expanding like a madman ( no worries about science for a while ) and then work to develop them. Wonders are a derail from that path.

 

[Quotey]

I said no arguments about the Mids!

How about going for Pig Iron near Gandhi, then Blue, and start mids in capital while Settlers in other Cities?

 

[pholkhero]

so, a consensus seems to be: settle the "outer rim" cities (pigs/dye/iron, banana/corn, copper/gold/incense) next and take teh pyramids if we get the time down the road ~ I still say we should go PDI first, then copper/gold, then corn/banana.

 

[LKendter]

so, a consensus seems to be: settle the "outer rim" cities (pigs/dye/iron, banana/corn, copper/gold/incense) next and take the pyramids if we get the time down the road ~ I still say we should go PDI first, then copper/gold, then corn/banana.

I still don't know if the longer term expansion is clear, but it clear my preference for blue dot / Pyramids ASAP lost the vote. I will found PDI.
This variant screams Pyramids to me, and I find very painful to delay them.

 

[mystyfly]

This variant cries REXing

 

[Kodii]

I think we have plenty of time before the Mids. Found PDI first, then we'll move from there. We'll need the land if we can't war until the Industrial age.

 

[LKendter]

This variant cries REXing

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. 6 cities with representation boost are better then 9 without IMHO when you factor in the maintenance cost.

I think we have plenty of time before the Mids. Found PDI first, then we'll move from there.

It isn't just a matter of time. It is a matter of efficiency. I forget who said it, but the Pyramids are a wonder whose value goes done every turn. The advantage is how many turns you get to run the better civic such as representation before it is available naturally.

 

[Kodii]

It isn't just a matter of time. It is a matter of efficiency. I forget who said it, but the Pyramids are a wonder whose value goes done every turn. The advantage is how many turns you get to run the better civic such as representation before it is available naturally.

True, but we aren't going to be running specialists until we finish expanding anyways. Like r_rolo said, ignore science for now.

 

[LKendter]

1560 BC
I wake up a warrior to get him ahead of the settler. With our target city being so far away we could lose it due to the slower speed of the warrior's movement.


1480 BC
(IT) I went with writing next, as it was the only tech mentioned. In addition, our variant will want libraries at some point.


1240 BC
I actually build a city where the game suggested.



(IT) A barb archer commits suicide against our axe.

=======================

Skimming through the thread I didn't see anything on number of turns, so I played to an even 70.

We will probably lose our explorer warrior that just found a barb archer.

Berlin finishes an axe next turn, and can start back on settlers. Putting the axe in the queue let me get the city to size 5 before the next settler.

I am going to suggest yellow dot next, and then back to the Pyramids debate. Yellow should be sufficient to keep Gandhi away for awhile.

 

[mystyfly]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. 6 cities with representation boost are better then 9 without IMHO when you factor in the maintenance cost.

It's not only science. According to the rules, we'll have to wage war sometime. And 6 science cities aren't that good in building up an army. While science weaknesses can be covered up by smart trading, lacking production is something that really hurts.

Skimming through the thread I didn't see anything on number of turns, so I played to an even 70.

... to a decision point (@pholk, I think it'll take time until everyone gets that )

I think I'm up but I haven't got it as there is no save.

Play either this evening or tomorrow afternoon.

I'll settle 1-2 more cities and start the mids. Tech suggestions?

 

[LKendter]

I think I'm up but I haven't got it as there is no save.

It is attached now. I still want EZ uploads back!

... to a decision point

Where was that posted?

 

[mystyfly]

Where was that posted?

Dunno, but ph said somewhere that all his game's sets last that long. But something like 10-30 turns on normal and something on epic

I'll be playing in ~3hrs. If you want me to play a certain #of turns, ph, you've still got some time

 

[daniel smith]

Originally Posted by DMSG "new rule"

Java: Turn limits are no more! We will no longer be playing specific turn-length sets. Rather, we will be stopping at a "natural stop point," ie, tech discovery, about to start a war/one ends, getting a GP, a critical game decision, etc. I trust you all, and know the RNGod will provide. Please, however, play at least 10 turns, and no more than, say, 25.

Pholks opening turn, in the end there is this little piece of information

 

[mystyfly]

Played 15 turns, 1200BC-750BC

Inherited turn
Move one warrior out of pigiron to fogbust near yellow dot

IBT
lose Warrior
Stonehenge BIDL

(2) 1120BC
Writing > Mysticism

IBT
Gandhi builds the Oracle (probabely Monarchy, he switched to HR, but quite some turns later).

(4) 1040BC
Whip Settler @ Berlin (> mids)

(5) 1000BC
Mysticism > Animal Husbandry

(6) 975BC
Settle Cologne aka Stone colony aka blue dot


(9) 900BC
Hindu-founder Lizzy's Archer has a little tea party with our axe in the middle of nowhere


(10) 875BC
AH > ABC (as there are no inter-AI OBs, I think we might be the first to Writing. I don't want to wait for some slow AI to discover the ABC.)

(12) 825BC
Hamburg Settler > Settler

(15) 750BC
Capture Gepid (barb with a bored axe (razed)


Found Hamburg aka Yellow dot


Whip settler @ Hamburg

---

I stopped here as there are some topics to discuss.

1. Mids. Due in 14. IMO we should chop at least 1 more forest (that worker on the spices is there to do so). The biggest contender to the mids is Augustus Caesar. He already built the GW. The other wonders fell rather late so Caesar might be building the mids. Whip them asap.

2. Hamburg. I 2pop-whipped another settler. It should finish the partially-built WB (for scouting) and probabely build another.

3. Further cities. We didn't decide on any spots to our east yet. I won't attempt any dotmap but comment on your Best case, we get all that land there, we'd probabely need to settle 3 cities to leave place for another city. I haven't spotted any settlers there but many AI units checking the terrain.

4. We should start opening borders. Gandhi founded Buddhism, Sury Judaism, Lizzy Hindu. IMO we should wait with OBs there and hope gandhi sends his missionaries to the french instead of to us. Then OB with Gandhi, Louis, and probabely some AIs in NSR.


Gandhi-blocking cities
7

Easter land waiting to be settled


View attachment PH13 BC-0750.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Quotey]

The easter (teehee) lands are devoid of food. Just conquer them at Biology, and tear down nasty cottages.

Pyramids are hopefully safe.

roster for clarity:

pholkhero (playing)
Quotey (on deck)
Kodii
r_rolo
LKendter
mystyfly (just played)

 

[pholkhero]

I think we have plenty of time before the Mids. Found PDI first, then we'll move from there. We'll need the land if we can't war until the Industrial age.

that's why, I also favored more cities ~ the production capability will be of more value, i think.

not to mention that we've won each SE game with Pyramid Priests, Pyramid Merchants, and Pyramid Spies. I think non-Pyr Scientists is a fair handicap.

though it looks like the argument is moot now ~

good turns, LK and Mysty ~ i'll go in until ABCs and maybe try to settle more cities. How this for a two more?


They'll be exposed and crappy until the jungles are gone, but they WILL be okay cities. I won't be playing tonight as I feel under-the-weather so you'll have time to comment.