Playing on Prince

[Saketh]

I am able to win fairly consistently only Noble (mostly Domination wins, though). As some of you suggested, I decided to play on Prince to get acclimated to the "real" Civ as soon as possible.

So I started up a game. Standard, Great Plains, as the Inca. I got Stonehenge, the Great Wall, and the Pyramids (still not sure how to make good use of the Pyramids, though). To make a long story short, I declared war on Isabella and took two of her cities, then I saved the game.

The thing is, I haven't been in the lead (Cyrus seems to be miles ahead), and I feel like I didn't get my empire running correctly. My capital can built a unit a turn, but my other cities are some sort of odd hybrids that don't really specialize in anything.

Basically, I'm having issues with maintaining research rate while in a state of aggressive war. I've noticed in some of the games posted on these forums (ALC, etc.) that people manage to maintain a score lead as well as a military/economic/cultural lead. I want to learn how to be able to do this, and I think I need to start fixing it from the beginning of the game.

I like to use the Inca and the Indians, but for consistent Domination victories on Noble I always use the Inca. I feel like my strategy would work on Prince as well, but I need to work out the kinks.

That said, I would appreciate it if someone could look at my saved game and tell me what I've been doing wrong. Or, if anyone has any general tips for winning on Prince, I would appreciate those as well .

Thanks!

 

[Harbourboy]

My general tips for getting going on Prince after being on Noble are:
1) Be smart about chopping for Settlers and Wonders
2) Make more extensive use of the Slavery civic by whipping population to build important early things
3) Cottages all over the place. It is the ongoing growth of money from cottages that gets you through that post war depression. Look at the GNP graphs of good players and there is a big surge as the cottages come online.
4) Don't bother with most wonders until you are really sure what to do with them
5) Have a dedicated GP farm with lots of food and National Epic
6) Have a dedicated production city with lots of mines
7) Don't try and build all buildings
8) Pay attention to diplomacy

Those are the main things that got me through Prince. A bit general, but they are the main things for me.

 

[Idlenessss]

Im usually playing on monarch. I think people overestimate how good extra cities are. Try to be more efficient with few cities. Its best not to enter into pointless wars that are easily avoided- instead try to combine war with diplomacy and joining some kinda team with certain neighbors. If you must simply cripple a person because they are too annoying and wont ever be nice to you and they keep pilalging yr stuff, then just raze their cities that arent super convenient for you or well built enough. For early quick expansion both currency and code of laws are a must.
You might have the wrong civ for the strategy yr using also. Inca isnt really designed to support a big empire or to build a much of wonders.

 

[jeremiahrounds]

number 8 and number 3 can get you through prince without even breaking a sweat. I suspect all can get you through, but i found 3 and 8 was easy and key. The rest are sort of things you need to get through past prince. Cottage spam and correct relations and trading partners are pretty much "I win" on prince though.

 

[Saketh]

number 8 and number 3 can get you through prince without even breaking a sweat. I suspect all can get you through, but i found 3 and 8 was easy and key. The rest are sort of things you need to get through past prince. Cottage spam and correct relations and trading partners are pretty much "I win" on prince though.

I'm trying that, but I find that my tech rate falls behind and therefore my military becomes outdated even before I get to Macemen.

I tried a game as Rome, and found that Praetorians were no good because the enemy was mass-building Knights.

Can someone give me a tried-and-true strategy to win on Prince? I'm just not sure what sort of tactics and overarching goals people have when they're playing at these higher levels...

 

[Harbourboy]

The best thing about Civ IV is that there is no longer one tried and true strategy, like there was with the previous Civs. You do need to think on your feet a bit better.

But the start is the key. If you get the first 100 turns done correctly in Prince, then you should be set up to carry it through.

And some ideas for the first 100-200 turns on Prince include:
- get workers up and running early and focus them on the right improvements
- a bit of micro management at the start goes a long way
- don't expand too much - too many cities will cripple you financially
- an early war is usually a good idea - rushing a suitable nearby enemy with axes will often be beneficial (unless you have another suitable unique unit like Immortals)
- early city placement is crucial (look at the pages of discussion that go into that one topic alone)
- make use of your scout(s). Just one extra tech popped from a hut can be hugely beneficial.

 

[axident]

but my other cities are some sort of odd hybrids that don't really specialize in anything.

That's your biggest problem right there. One easy way to dominate on Prince is to have your capital be a massive, farm-heavy specialist city with lots and lots of wonders and specialists and super-specialists, with library, uni, etc. and oxford university with national epic. This great person farm/science city/wonderville will represent some mammoth portion of your entire economy once you get Bureaucracy hooked up with Representation (which is the reason why people build the Pyramids, to answer your question.. well that and Police State if they want a big early rush). Later on you can hook up Statue of Liberty + Mercentalism to make your specialists even more numerous.

Ditto what other say about cottages. If I have enough workers, I start off farming and then gradually switch to cottaging, paving over some farms with cottages once I get Biology. Also, don't overexpand.. try to stay at least 60 percent science on the slider. Shrines with big followings of that religion, spiral minaret, etc. all help.

Also look to have at least 2 big production cities for Ironworks/West Point Red Cross/National Epic later on. Farm and mine like crazy at first for the whip, but once your early war is over, cottage like crazy.

Diplomacy matters more in prince and above. Weak guy asking for tech? Give it to him. Trade techs when you get them; no sense researching everything yourself when you can research one tech and get multiple techs back. Dogpile onto unpopular guys or bribe the top dog into multiple wars.. basically raise havoc anywhere that you can't or don't want to directly war with someone. You (usually) can't be friends with everyone, so choose your allies. I tend to blow off crappy trading partners like Toku-"all my techs are belong to me"-Gawa. Also pay attention to religion and switch if it make sense--you don't want to be the only non-Buddhist on your continent, because all else equal that makes the AIs more likely to war with you as the sole heathen on their radar screen.

Also try to make good resource trades. I once got an AI to pay 28 gold per turn for marble, even though all of the marble-based wonders were already completed. I also like to trade away my copper (unless I need it back for the Statue of Liberty) once I get iron. Ditto for horses once I get riflemen. But even standard your-corn-for-my-wheat trades benefit both sides. Try not to trade with the strongest guy if you can help it; he doesn't need any more help!

At least 3 core cities is good enough for an axe rush.

Slavery for whipping early key buildings and a wave of axemen is good.

Whoever said Incan is not good for building wonders.. are you sure about that? They are industrious/financial after all. They also have a useful UU and a very useful UB.

 

[Cam_H]

Saketh,

I've had a quick look at your game, and make the following observations that you can agree or disagree with.

Stonehenge

Personally I would not have built this in your Capital ... you've done well to pick up The Great Wall and The Pyramids in the one city, thereby creating a Great Engineer 'pump'. Unfortunately you have muddied your pool with Stonehenge, which increases the liklihood of Great Prophets. You have since popped one, and decided to settle him. What technology could he 'lightbulb'? You may have picked up Theology/Christianity? As you advance in levels, consideration to lightbulbing and technology preferences becomes increasingly important. Settling Great Engineers? I know a few of the Medieval Era WoWs are a bit useless, but are there no other WoWs of at least passing interest?

Hybrid Cities

Just to echo axident's point, specialisation is an important plank in getting ahead.

Note: Cottage Spamming ... does not mean put a lot of Cottages down in cities with poor food production. If you ain't got the food, the tile won't get worked, and the tile is therefore useless. Cottage spamming is (in part) contingent upon the available food in order to work the tiles. Learn to count surpluses and deficits.

This picture of -poor 'Cottage Spamming' pretty well articulates the point (from another game!) ? ...

Geographic intelligence

You've got a poor understanding of the land that you're attacking. I notice that you have a Scout that's checked out Celtia, but it's handy to have a good feel for the natural terrain, cultural boundaries, etc. when going in to war - currently your invasion force is doing your scouting of Spain.

Civics

The lack of happiness resources makes Hereditary Rule an attractive option in this game, but as a general rule; Representation offers itself as a compelling civic for the early game. You've settled several Super Specialists and running two Scientists in your capital, so you can put a good case for the specialist--boosted Representation (which has a happiness boost {"We love this city of ours"} to your largest cities also).

Technology Path

I can't see a progression in any particular direction here. Some work is needed for the Liberalism slingshot if that was at all planned. As noted below, the game is well set up however for Guilds/Knights once the Toledo Horses are hooked up (the only visable Horses on the map?).

Triangle Diplomacy

No close friends, one enemy. Consideration towards aligning yourself to a leader or even a religious faction may save your hide at some later point. In your game I would look at possibly Hannibal as an ally or the 'uncomfortable' Tokugawa-Asoka combo. Tokugawa, if you work on it, can eventually become surprisingly helpful as an ally, although it will require religious conversion and sitting in Mercantilism before you're looking at getting into 'Defensive Pact' territory. The Asoka-Toku combo can see Asoka as your trader while Toku as your attack dog ... albeit he's pretty pathetic right now in your game. I'd press on with taking out or Vassalising Spain, and Brennus isn't a great help as an ally in my experience - very low WFYABTA limit for starters. Cyrus could become a runaway, so he's probably not your #1 choice as trading partner. Hannibal's got a pretty good preferred civic (Free Market), but at the moment he's a loner.

Slavery

Use it or lose it. Whip away your unhappy population.

Ahead

Some of the pressures of the empire will be aided by hooking up Cordoba (Corn, Marble), and Toledo's Horses will provide a valuable resource ... you're in a strong position with Knights not far away. Look for happiness resources and/or religion as a solution - at Prince you've got a surprisingly difficult

issue to deal with.

Best of luck with it!

 

[Saketh]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

I'm still having an issue with warfare -- how am I supposed to defend captured cities without fortifying chunks of my offensive army? Should I bring a ton of Archers and Spearmen to fortify in cities as I capture them?

 

[Carnage04]

I just got Civ IV a few weeks ago after a long hiatus between my Civ II Junkie days and my dislike of Civ III. Civ IV feels much better and is very interesting and challenging. Anyway, I just beat it on Prince for the first time this weekend. A few minor mistakes that I corrected along the way.....

1. You don't have to destroy a Civ that declares war on you completely.

Just take a few of the closer, better cities. I have found that when waging a prolonged war on a single Civ eventually leaves you to the point where another Civ wants a crack at you. That forces you to move your armies to a different front after declaring peace on the other as soon as posssible.

2. Don't panic if you have a mid game economy sag.

I seem to blaze out after my first war of conquest when I am looking at Education, Feudalism, Nationalism, etc.....Usually unhappiness in my core cities or maintenance in my newly conquested cities is the problem. Be very methodical about what you put in your cities at this point. Use Religion to address your core unhappiness and use the workers you captured to chop rush Courthouses to diminish maintenance in your new acquisitions. Trade around for techs all you can.

3. Shiny wonders look tempting, but there is usually something else to build.

When your Capital is sitting there in a time of (relative) peace looking happy and healthy and with little to build.....don't build Ankor Wat or the like because you can......keep cranking out defensive units (Or offensive units if you think you will attack again soon). I really only will build Pyramids, The Oracle, The Great Library, or the Hanging Gardens in the Early game. The Pyramids are great, but hard to get. The Oracle and Library are usually obtainable. Remember, you will most likely have to whip and/or chop rush to get them.

4. When waging wars, PROTECT YOUR RESOURCES

You can burn out real fast if that chariot or two is running all over your countryside pillaging your resources while you are waging war. When you have to take a step back to regrab your iron and copper to build axe/swordsmen you are wasting valuable time. Be sure to drop at least two archers on your Horses/Iron or Copper Mines/Elephants, or whatever you are currently using for warfare.

5. Try to found a religion.

Obviously Mysticism - Meditation/Polytheism is the best way to go. I guess I cheated on this in the fact that I won my first game with Isabella, who starts with Mysticism. I was lucky enough to grab both of them early on. I had some secure borders with some of those huge +4 "We Care for our brothers and sisters of the Faith" diplomacy modifiers. It makes trading and peace much easier. Be warned.....Civs that are friendly may get bored and come for you any way. Be sure to be wary of any neighbors no matter how friendly.

Carnage

 

[cabert]

Some good advice here.
As usual, I totally agree with Cam_h, so I won't develop further in this.

A few good points from Carnage too, but you should not think that what turned out best in 1 particular game is best all the time.
You don't need to found religions. Do it if you can (myst as starting tech is a huge difference), but it's not necessary at all. See, you could just as well build up your army while waiting for your neighbours missionaries to try to convert you . Deciding on a religious conversion should have nothing to do with the religion being founded in your land or not.

 

[pigswill]

Disagree with carnage04 on wiping out AIs. Longing for the motherland/pining for the fjords is one of the more irritating forms of unhappiness (imho) which can only be resolved by the homeland's total annihilation. However it can be worth wiping out a civilisation in two stages particularly if your army's getting weak and/or your economy is struggling with the extra maintenance (and better still if you can get concessions for a peace treaty).

 

[cabert]

Disagree with carnage04 on wiping out AIs. Longing for the motherland/pining for the fjords is one of the more irritating forms of unhappiness (imho) which can only be resolved by the homeland's total annihilation. However it can be worth wiping out a civilisation in two stages particularly if your army's getting weak and/or your economy is struggling with the extra maintenance (and better still if you can get concessions for a peace treaty).

The homeland issue isn't as bad as some people claim it to be.
- It's a lot lower when you're not at war with the ex owner (maybe it's just the ww who tips the scale, I don't know)
- If your culture gets dominant there, you don't face it anymore.

Of course, total annihilation is sometimes easier than overcoming large culture, but with time (easier if you capture cities early or if you put a lot of your own culture, like culture bombing) you can get rid of this little issue. That's one of the good aspects of whipping a theatre asap .

Now that I said those things, I will need to test them in a game, since I almost always finish off my enemies