Playing the save... or not

[730195]

Article E - Playing the Save
No person may play the save other than a Designated Player specifically tasked to do so, or an official who is required to attempt certain actions to get information about what is possible in the game.
If any action must be performed outside a scheduled play session, to obtain information about possible options, the game must then be immediately closed without saving, and without performing further actions.
Obtaining information which would not be visible to someone playing the game, at the current point in time reflected by the current saved game or a previous saved game, by any mechanism, is prohibited. As noted in Section 1.a of this Article, actions performed by an official, where performing the action is the only way to determine options, are permitted as long as the game is immediately closed following such investigation.
Inadvertent discovery of information shall not result in any penalty, provided no attempt is made to further disseminate the information or use it to advantage within the game.
Use of any exploits is prohibited. No person may manipulate the game in any way other than by normal play mechanisms, unless expressly permitted by law.
Lower forms of law are free to (and expected to) further define what actions are allowed and disallowed by this rule.

I would like a clearer idea of what this means. Could a citizen legally open the save and

• scroll around the map and mouse-over things to see what's there?
• hit the W key to skip to the next unit (possibly with some blue circles, etc)?
• move a unit to see if it can go 1 or 2 tiles?
• indicate intention to attack in order to see the computed odds without letting the attack actually happen?

Are there other interesting things a citizen can do with the save?

And the bit about

or an official who is required to attempt certain actions to get information about what is possible in the game

What sort of things would be allowed in this case?

 

[Vind2]

The first two points should be OK, but I'm not sure about the rest.

 

[dutchfire]

move a unit to see if it can go 1 or 2 tiles?

You can't acutally move units, you are allowed however to use go to to see how long it would take without clicking a tile.

indicate intention to attack in order to see the computed odds without letting the attack actually happen?

Yes, you're allowed to do that.

 

[dutchfire]

And the bit about

Quote:
or an official who is required to attempt certain actions to get information about what is possible in the game

What sort of things would be allowed in this case?

I think this one is about for example in diplomacy, the cheiftain/foreign minister trying offers to see what will be accepted.

 

[730195]

I think this one is about for example in diplomacy, the cheiftain/foreign minister trying offers to see what will be accepted.

So, do you think this is NOT allowed for an ordinary citizen viewing the save?

 

[ice2k4]

Really anything that would provide information that we don't already know. You should use your own judgment. Examples of illegal actions pertaining to the current save are:

Moving the settler to unveil tiles
Moving the scout to unveil tiles
Settling the city to unveil tiles

 

[DaveShack]

Generally the prohibition is on doing anything which can't be undone without reloading. The exception for attempting trades to see if they will be accepted reflects a difference between civ3 and civ4. In civ3, the advisor would say "they'll accept this", "we're getting close", etc, where in civ4 you have no idea if the offer will be accepted until you click "offer trade".

It's a good point that maybe we should let anyone check trades. Technically that would require an amendment.

The items in the OP are all allowed, as long as the 3rd bullet about moving to see if a unit can go 1 or 2 means using the goto mode and seeing what number pops up. Actually moving would not be ok.

One thing different compared to Civ3, you can not move on railroads in Civ4 because it does take up fractional move points. Not that we'll be doing that anytime soon, but keep it in mind.

 

[ori]

where in civ4 you have no idea if the offer will be accepted until you click "offer trade".

well - you can always click on "what would make this trade work" - The AI will either say something like "this is my offer" if it accepts your offer or amend it in a way it would like - then you know you have to give something more. Or it will say something like the deal is impossible (then it really is impossible*)

*this does not take into account deficit spending - so gold/turn deals would need some playing with the tax slider prior to this...

In short: you can check trades in line with the rules quoted above...

 

[DaveShack]

However, you can't find out if you're giving too much in the deal, because they will ask for more than the minimum they'll accept.

 

[yoagi]

I believe we shouldn't be able to ''test-trade'' as this would give us an unfair advantage. Negotiating with the AI is part of the game isn't it. If we are to negotiate with AI, I say we better go with Ori's suggestion:

Originally posted by ORI
well - you can always click on "what would make this trade work" - The AI will either say something like "this is my offer" if it accepts your offer or amend it in a way it would like - then you know you have to give something more. Or it will say something like the deal is impossible (then it really is impossible*)

Negotiating is a game in itself. You win, you lose.

The constitution allows officials to ''test-trade'' as stated in section 2 in complement with section 1a of arcticle E. And this constitution was voted. So we are allowed to cheat up to a certain point.

But will we?

But the foreign affairs will take care of this I guess.