Playing with Workers with Defense

[Pounder]

Remember in Civ2 when workers had defense.

I have been playing with workers with defense of 1 for the last few months.

I find that the game has a different dynamic. Workers are no longer captured when attacked, you do however still get workers when attacking a settler and when you raze larger town.

It is enjoyable and I will probably not change back to workers with no defense.

The slave workers have the defend animation already included in Conquests and there is a defend animation available in the "customs and creations forum" for the modern worker.

Just wondering if anyone else has been playing with worker defense.

 

[dgfred]

Great idea , I never played c2 so it is interesting to me .
What effects the games most by this?

 

[Dell19]

Does it make early Ancient wars far harder because workers can be used as a basic defence unit?

 

[Pounder]

A worker will fend off the odd warrior in the field or maybe cause a horse to retreat. If they go back to a town they will be the last units defending. They do get promoted, but I haven't seen a great leader ever, it may be possible (would be extremely rare). They can provide a diversion for the attacking Civ.

Other wise they act like regular workers is all other aspects.

 

[unscratchedfoot]

I tried making workers defense 1 like you said and one made a leader after winning a combat in ancient era. I used the leader to make an army of 3 workers (eventually 4) named "The Shovel Tossers" and captured 2 enemy cities with it. The worker army became obsolete pretty quick for combat though but it did enable me to build the military academy which was vital. The worker army eventually was killed off in modern era by an enemy tank. I say its good fun for the whole family and snigger my nose at those who protest giving minimal defense to workers.

I've also tried the modern worker unit and it is really useful used as an upgrade for the basic worker with an advanced tech.

 

[Roland Johansen]

If the only reason you do this is to make workers uncapturable, then you can lower their hps so that they aren't that strong. Also, you can use a setting in the general tab of the editor about enslavement units (don't know exactly how it is called). If you change it from worker to none, then workers and settlers can't be captured anymore, even if they have zero defence.

I've experimented a bit with this as you see, but you can't remove slave workers from the game completely. If you build a worker from a city with only foreign population, then it will still be a slave worker.

In my precent mod I added an engineer unit (with all worker actions) with the (added) technology emancipation. This engineer unit has no upkeep and thus essentially makes the slave worker obsolete and removes the (probably) large advantage over the AI that you have at that point in the game.

 

[Pounder]

In my precent mod I added an engineer unit (with all worker actions) with the (added) technology emancipation. This engineer unit has no upkeep and thus essentially makes the slave worker obsolete and removes the (probably) large advantage over the AI that you have at that point in the game.

I like the idea of your engineer.

Making workers uncapturable was not the reason I added defense to workers.
I don't like the fact that a single horse can come in an take out a stack of workers without resistance.

 

[Dell19]

Isn't that realistic though as the workers are unlikely to be ready for a fight and would surrender rather than fight?

 

[Pounder]

Isn't that realistic though as the workers are unlikely to be ready for a fight and would surrender rather than fight?

When a single attacker comes in on a stack of workers, I may lose one worker and the others will have a chance to run. If the attacker happens to have movement of 2, then the other workers will be tracked down and killed. If the attacker has enslavement set, then the worker can still be enslaved.

Self defense, many martial arts are based on the use of basic farm tools for defense. Nunchucks, bowstaffs, axes, knifes, ropes, pitchforks are all farm implements that make fine weapons. The slave worker animation uses its shovel for the defend animation.

I guess nothing is going to be completely realistic, but I like this change.

 

[Dell19]

I guess it works reasonably well as more powerful units will be able to easily take workers although then again wouldn't some of the modern units be able to take a stack of workrs in one go?

 

[Pounder]

It is definitely more of a benefit to have defense when technology is limited and maybe more realistic.

 

[unscratchedfoot]

You guys are missing all the fun and being too serious about it. Give your workers stat 1 for defense and attack and then you can make armies out of them and then irrigate your enemies.

 

[Dell19]

Are we? I kind of like to play unmodified games usually as sometimes mods seem to make the game easier...

 

[genghis_khev]

I like the idea of a worker army! LOL!

Would be fun to have an arty army too!

Better would be a combi worker-arty-inf army capable of making terrain improvements on the frontline without being captured!!

It does annoy me when the AI uses an often an injured 1hp unit to attack a stack of workers just so he can disband them. The AI should concentrate of defence or taking/re-taking cities not this type of petty action which just gets his unit wiped out. Such attacks should harm reputation ALOT (articles of war/Geneva Convention etc).

 

[Pounder]

Are we? I kind of like to play unmodified games usually as sometimes mods seem to make the game easier...

This is the only none graphical mod I have in my games. I don't think that it makes the game easier as you have to produce most of your workers yourself and you don't have large numbers of captured workers. Keeping in mind that your own workers have a maintenance cost attached to them and slaves don't.

Edit: Actually, I forgot; I gave explorers attack of 1 as well. I had to, as he is carrying a weapon and an attack animation and it gave him a chance when running into a single Barbarian.

 

[Theoden]

I like the idea of a worker army! LOL!

Would be fun to have an arty army too!

Better would be a combi worker-arty-inf army capable of making terrain improvements on the frontline without being captured!!

First units in army lose any worker functions (legionaries in RoR does so it must also apply for workers.) Secondly units with no attack or defence can't be loaded into armies so your artillery army isn't possible. And finally armies that consist of even the same units will lose their bombard ability (know it from Senguko) so that's another obstacle

Anyway I like the idea of workers being captured since that I will not lose anything permanently if the AI attacks my workers. I like to be able to take them back. On the other hand I will also do permanent damage to the AI. I do however like the idea for the sake of realism. Warriors are nearly only armed peasants so workers should be as good as warriors if you follow realism

 

[unscratchedfoot]

theoden and dell, you're being too serious again. Man, its a game, not rocket engineering. Need to have fun with games. My mod usually makes the game harder not easier for the human opponent, by giving some civs better/historical units and making historical alliances and then the human plays a weak civ. Much more fun and challenging than the boring epic game.

 

[mazzz]

isnt there a unit limit, if you have a unit with zero upkeep would you reach the limit quickly?

 

[Dell19]

Sorry for being too serious i just think its interesting to discuss how these changes affect the gameplay and how the AI handles the changes...

 

[TerraHero]

It would make civs like Inca i think with the Javalin trower very powerfull early era. They can get alota those free workers who basicly are strong enough to win a war with if u have enough.

Put on raging barbs and u get a whole free army. maybe juz giving them a def but no atk, otherwise civs with capture become really strong. Or make 2 workers, 1 with def (only build) and 1 with no stats, the one u capture. But i liked a later upgrade of the worker beter where they get 4/4/1 or sumthing in the industrial era