Please explain how to ask for AI Gold & Tech

[Perugia]

Does anyone know the rules by which the AI will give you gold or tech. I know this depends on AI attitude and usually they have to be pleased before they will agree and if they do they will not repeat it for several turns.

Do these factors depend on leader personalities and game difficulty?

Is there a limit to the number of times any one AI will agree to give you free gold or techs?

How many turns do you have to wait before asking again?

Is there an attitude hit if you ask too soon or too many times?

How much gold will they give - I have asked for 50g in many games but with tech they will give you more beakers worth.

I'd have thought there would be a thread for this already on the forum but I can't find one......

 

[Jorunkun]

Does anyone know the rules by which the AI will give you gold or tech. I know this depends on AI attitude and usually they have to be pleased before they will agree and if they do they will not repeat it for several turns. Do these factors depend on leader personalities and game difficulty?

Yes, they do. There are a lot of rules governing which techs (if any) the AI will trade. The most important one is that they will NOT trade with you if they don't like you enough. The threshold varies from Mansa Musa (who will almost always be willing to trade) to tightwads like Brennus. As a rule of thumb, you won't be able to trade with an AI if they are annoyed or worse.

Is there a limit to the number of times any one AI will agree to give you free gold or techs?

Yes. Search for "WFYABTA" - we fear you are becoming too advanced - on the forums, there is an excellent thread on this.

How many turns do you have to wait before asking again?

You can trade on consecutive turns until WFYABTA kicks in.

Is there an attitude hit if you ask too soon or too many times?

No, there isn't.

How much gold will they give - I have asked for 50g in many games but with tech they will give you more beakers worth.

Again, this depends on a number of factors. In general, you are better off trading tech for tech (unless you really need the gold). The best way to find out is to offer the tech and ask "what would you give me for this".

 

[oyzar]

i think he was asking for tribute rules not the trade rules...

 

[Ecofarm]

There is a negative if they turn you down (though you cannot see it). I have asked for an expensive tech, got turned down, and (immediately) then asked for a cheap one and got turned down again. Reloaded and asked for the cheap tech without asking for expensive one first - and got it. I re-tested several times and there were no other factors.

 

[Welnic]

I've heard that the negative mark against you has a 1/20 chance of disappearing every turn. So 20 turns would be a good amount of time to wait before you ask again.

I have never gotten a tech, mainly because I don't ask for the cheap ones, I would rather research those than have them count against WFTYABTA. I've never gotten the nice ones that I have asked for. But I have gotten large amounts of gold. I usually ask for the max that they are willing to trade, and I have gotten that often enough that it seems like a reasonable amount to ask for.

 

[cabert]

My rules of thumb :
- wait 15/20 turns at least between demands (agreed tor refused, doesn't matter)
- ask only
(*) pleased or friendly civs,
or
(*) civs that you could crush easily (mostly those you already crushed ) which you don't expect to like you in a foreseeable future.
- ask for money only (unless MM is outteching you, he may then hand you something) or some non strategic resource (health or happiness).
- if you ask often, don't expect a lot. 150 gold every 30 turns or so is good enough for me. thank you benevolent neighbour.
- you get better results if you're stronger. Even with pleased AIs. Waiting for those 3 or 4 axes to complete can be a good move.

 

[Uncle E]

Not sure if this is borderline exploit, but I've noticed that an AI that I've invaded and taken a few cities from before (and therefore weak on the power graph) will hand over all of their gold when I demand it - Prince level and I'm way ahead on the power graph.

I suppose it's their way to appease me, but I just do it to milk them and then promptly invade :/ ... kinda dirty I suppose, but the future maintenance costs of taking over their remaining cities needs to be offset somehow

 

[Heffling]

Ecofarm,

The AI is coded so that if you ask for something and it doesn't give it, it won't give you anything for free for X number of turns. Likely this was put in place to avoid any friendly exploitation. I'm not sure if the X number of turns varies on difficulty level, map size, or game speed.

 

[Binky123]

I've been wondering this as well.

Where is voiceofunreason when we need him, haha.

 

[Giaur]

150 gold when AI is pleased and possibly 250 gold (but it's to be tested) when AI is friendly. I've just ask Mansa for 180 gold and he refused ...

 

[Giaur]

You can also ask for gold per turn. 6 gold per turn works ok ...

edit: and don't ask for so "much" when it's 1500BC ...

 

[cabert]

I tried to ask for techs
I got fishing from one AI and sailing next turn from another. Both were only pleased.

 

[Perugia]

Thanks Jorunkun for mentioning the WFYABTA thread that's very interesting - we need to same analysis for this game concept which I guess is related but not the same...

...Yes oyzar, I am asking for 'tribute' rules ie the AI gives you something for nothing when you ask but I don't like the term tribute when the AI is friendly or pleased. To my mind tribute only applies in the cases where they are weaker on the power graph and usually annoyed or furious because of recent hostilities.

Cabert gives some general rules for obtaini old I've seen this elsewhere on the forum but like Obormot, the OP on the WFYABTA thread, I understand the concept itself, but I am interested in some numbers, so that I can plan ahead.

I'm playing a lot of Deity games at the moment where I'm behind in tech and trying to remain friendly with the AI - I'm asking for their help as they are advanced in tech and have much spare gold. Unless someone has a better phrase we can call this came concept a 'solicited gift' - maybe there's a better term for it in the SDK.

Anyway I've been asking for techs from Civs who are pleased or friendly and got Polytheism from one AI who was pleased but I'm not have much success at asking for more valuable tech.

The AIs Ive been working on good relations with are obviously minded to assist as I've also been given 'unsolicited gifts' much more frequently by other civs that were pleased or friendly. For example I picked up Metal Casting, Alphabet and Liberalism this way. I've also been gifted Divine Right though I had part researched it using a GP.

Thanks for all your responses so far.

 

[cabert]

more valuable techs won't be gifted easily. You should be pleased/friendly for say 100 turns before asking for something like writing.
For something like alphabet, you'd need to wait even longer (without asking for anything in between)