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Poland strategy guide

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by tommynt, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. DrakenKin

    DrakenKin Prince

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    Actually not less but more, since settler prerequisite gives hammer bonus, meaning those 3rd and 4rth settler finish faster. ;)

    I would also like to add a small note that nobody seem to have pointed out. The hammer bonus, even if tiny, is almost equivalent to Autocracy from tradition. Autocracy gives 15% to building wonders early, while Republic gives 5% +1 hammer. Seeing as very early game you rarely have more than 10 hammers in your capital, that 1 hammer is equivalent to 10% of your production (more if you have less production) add the extra 5% and you have a more powerful Autocracy, that works on everything and not only wonders.

    But what you said is a very nice way to present the policy, three settlers for the price of one, and much sooner at that. :)

    Which brings us to another hidden text... since building settlers stops your growth, there is something to be said for Landed elites VS not having to stop growing for 3 settlers worth of turns. ;)

    Very nice post, makes me want to try liberty soon. :)
     
  2. Elizabeth0220

    Elizabeth0220 Chieftain

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    Hi there, I made this account specifically to respond to this guide. I just started playing Civilization 5 and had absolutely no prior knowledge of this game series.

    I have used your guide almost exclusively with a friend who plays Germany. We ally together as soon as we can find eachother on the map. We play usually Pangaea Plus/Epic or Marathon/Domination win. We are new so we are on the lower difficulties for now.

    I am just wondering if this is a decent guide to follow with those conditions. I usually pump gold to my Germany ally who amasses an army with massive production.

    I am also wondering if you build all farms or if there is a mix of farms/lumber mills/markets or if it depends on what land you have? I cannot for the life of me tell on that first screenshot.

    Thanks!
     
  3. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    DISCLAIMER: I am an Emperor player trying to move up to Immortal, but I play a lot of games on Deity in order to test strategy. My opinion is therefore of perhaps limited value, but like a lot of players learning to get better, I want to separate good advice from bad. Seeing it in action visually helps. :)

    With respect, I beg to differ. A great deal of the maps I've tried this on do not have suitable city locations with enough unique luxuries, and a very large number do not have trade routes to AI divs for science. Because your strategy is clever in that it brings about SP when they can deliver the most benefit, anything that throws the timing off can screw with it. I know you think it's flexible, but if any of what I call the 'annoying 3' are worse than normal (persistent barbs/no trade routes/aggressive AIs) then to my mind, it's not flexible enough. You say you don't make SP videos, but I think just among readers of this thread there are 20-50 people that would love to see a SP video using this strategy and a much more mediocre start.

    I ran into serious gold and happiness problems following your BO with a fairly decent start in my capital, because the other city locations were a bit meh. In fact, I'd love some advice from the better players on what to do when there are NO good city locations and you want to pursue a peaceful CV. On domination, you stick to OCC/2 city NC and build an army to take other cities, right? But what about peace?

    I'm sorry but I don't find this to be that common in my games.

    Does anyone who used this strategy want to post a video, since the OP doesn't want to?

    This. ^^

    I'm sorry but I just can't believe this. Video please?

    Seconded, please.

    Yes. I'd happily believe it's more flexible if I see it at work on a mediocre start.

    I had all of the above problems plus no trade partners for science caravans/ships. Not sure what the solution is, besides starting again with a different game and hoping for a better map.

    Yeah, that would help a LOT.

    This is what I find a lot of the time.

    I don't see anyone trying to be annoying. People just have feedback and doubts. Expert players and beginners alike. Speaking purely for myself, I know that the best way for me to get better at a game is to find outside the box strategies. Many moons ago I was setting world records on GTA:SA by doing just that. Now I play Civ 5, and want to get a lot better. You may not understand the appeal of watching LP videos, but I really like them and find them really helpful.

    If you're still skeptical, I can give you one or two of the maps I tried your strategy on and you can tell me where you'd have settled?

    Have to say this is my experience a lot of the time too. Either infested with spammers or empty and no trade partners. Rarely a balance or the two + a good start for luxes + barbs aren't out of control.

    I'd love to hear the answers to this too.

    What would YOU replace with units in the build order? I love your videos the most and trust you the most of the known good players.

    Same again.

    What does adapting mean as far as BO etc?

    Yeah, I'm keen on this too.

    I know this a lot but for me this is an important thread. :)
     
  4. Paszczak

    Paszczak Warlord

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    As Poland, never ally yourself with Germany. They'll backstab you at the end of Modern Era.
     
  5. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    You go on to show a lot more examples but one thing that makes Civ Civ is that every situation is different. I am sure you have seen some of the write ups on the Deity Challenges and noticed how varied each game is even though most players adhere to the same basic concepts and strategies.

    The reason Tommynt can say this is a consistent and flexible strategy is because he is good. It gives him the tools to win. There are a lot of little things I know now that allow for a lot more strategies to work whereas in the past the actually hurt my game. It is like having a professional race car driver saying that having X this and Y that helps him be more consistent when all it would do for me is slow me down.

    I think you are right though that watching videos helps you learn the decision making principles that make you a better player. In every game there are multiple decisions that drastically change the game even if they are made just 1 turn apart. Learning how to make the right choice on the right turn is a lot harder to learn from forums that from videos.


    TL:DR
    TommyNT is good, what works for him may not work for you
    Knowing when to make a choice is as important as knowing what choice to make
    Videos are probably the best way to learn outside sitting next to someone
     
  6. Zednaught

    Zednaught Chieftain

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    I decided to give this strategy a try as a long time Immortal difficulty player, but just my second proper Deity game. In short, it's quite reliable and powerful. Many of the tips in the strategy are just good advice in general and not specific to Poland. However, there are enough specifics that are consistent and easy to reproduce.

    I'm not seeing the main complaints with it. Barbarians are easier to handle on Deity, and I've never once had a trade route plundered- a non issue. The speed at which this plows through Liberty means that you should always be able to find 3 city sites with a luxury resource. Happiness and gold pressures affected me too, but between buildings, trades, and, city states it's manageable.

    I'm having a much more mediocre start than him- no chance at a religion, and only one city where I can build the ducal stables. Still, I've ended up doing quite well. I've enough experience on Pangaea maps to say that the main points of his strategy can be reproduced consistently.

    For comparison, I looked back at my last game, on Immortal level game as the Incas, which I won quite strongly. Compared to turn 150 of that game, my turn 130 Poland has 50% more science per turn, more policies, and is an era ahead. There's still a lot to go, but I'm clearly in a strong position.

    The only issue with this is that it's most effective on Pangaea, as it relies on having access to many city states and civs to trade with.
     
  7. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    If my capital is hammer heavy i will prefer completing Tradition asap and fill Patronnage entirely instead of going for some of Liberty. If you can get these 4 cities fairly early without Liberty(like any good overall Trad start) then Patronnage will help to boost your economy and population slightly more than Liberty.

    Keep in mind that Deity can be ''easier'' if all things come in place. The op example has Fountain of Youth included.

    It depends of land in most cases.
     
  8. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Well, in my case, because I had an isolated start, I had to deal with barbarians, and external trade routes to other civs weren't really an option (at first, until the map filled in)... plus I had Lake Victoria, and could barely keep up with happiness. So, I needed more defensive units early, more scouting units to even meet the other civs, and didn't need caravans as early for growth, quests or beakers. Sometimes you have to tech Archery earlier, to get defensive units up. That means delaying a luxury tech sometimes, (and therefore hurts happiness) or delaying Writing, (which hurts tech) but the alternative is worse. If you have no units to defend your workers and improvements, the setback can be far worse than getting Libraries 5 turns late.

    Another more obvious example is faith. If you get a faith ruin or meet two faith CS, you don't need a shrine. That means an earlier granary or settler or archer. If, however, you want to ensure you get the right pantheon, because maybe you're sitting on a perfect Desert Folklore start, you might have to tech Pottery ASAP and build a shrine ASAP. There's no substitute for experience when it comes to making decisions like this... and it's still a gamble. You could beeline a shrine and still lose the pantheon. In fact, I'd say the odds of getting a pantheon are better by building 3 scouts out of the gate than by building a shrine. It all depends. This is obviously only relevant to Deity though.
     
  9. trixcit

    trixcit Chieftain

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    Hi tommy, great guide, I can't wait to try it soon. Do you plan to add a roll-up of all the advice in this thread into the main post? (I'm still only reading at page 3...)
     
  10. Shacassanach

    Shacassanach Chieftain

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    Free policies plus unit buffs means you can judiciously (i.e. avoid over-expansion) play wide to your end-game goal. Conquer food sites for science victories, money sites for UN victories, etc... Don't build tall for culture, and only build military wonders to help with conquests for expansions plus the wonders that will help with the end game goal (e.g. GL for science victory). Poland basically has no advantage for building tall, even if aiming for a cultural win, and you can just conquer the leading cultural cities.
     
  11. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    I like this strategy. I used to play a lot of mixed Tradition/Liberty games even though the "smarter" players always said to choose one or the other. With the bonus policies from Poland's UA, you really can have your cake and eat it too.

    My only feedback from having played the Tradition/Liberty mix with a lot of different civs is that I would close Liberty earlier than your guide suggests. I would take a GS for an early Academy 9/10 times with the only exceptions being a GE for a key wonder or a GM for a Concert Tour to win an early Cultural VC (generally only works on smaller maps).

    My opening policies would be:

    Tradition -> Liberty to Collective Rule and Citizenship -> Aristocracy (sometimes I take this earlier if there are Wonders to build...especially on King level and below) -> finish Liberty -> finish Tradition.

    Next is full Rationalism for any type of game. The science benefits cannot be beat. If you manage to finish both Tradition and Liberty before the Renaissance Era, dip into Commerce. Cheaper purchasing with gold from Mercantilism and Big Ben can really make a difference in the post Industrial eras.
     
  12. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    You don't *need* to finish Liberty for this to work really well. The most underrated aspect of Poland in my opinion is not needing to time Renaissance with Ratio opener as the Poland UA will do it for you
     
  13. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    About the strongest buff you get from Tradition is the four aqueducts from the finisher, the value of which is directly proportional to how quickly you get them. There is not much getting around this, so Poland or not (culture ruin or not), you have to factor that heavily into your decisions. If building the 'duct in you cap caused it to spawn elsewhere, then delaying the Tradition finisher would be fine, but unfortunately, that is not how it works. Delaying free aqueducts is throwing away hammers and food. Who wants to do that? I agree that delaying the Liberty finisher is not much of a big deal.

    Sorry, but I think that is quite terrible, and even under the best circumstances delays Rationalism (which, like you wrote, cannot be beat). Less bad would be:
    Liberty to Collective Rule and Citizenship -> Full Tradition -> Liberty until Rationalism unlocks -> three best policies in Rationalism -> finish Liberty

    Rational: The half-price settlers is the strongest policy in Liberty, and you want the worker to be relevant. Rationalism is so valuable that it should be pursued ASAP. This order delays the Tradition finisher to the minimal extent possible.

    Assuming wide play, I think one would still be better off skipping Tradition entirely, because even with Poland and a culture ruin, the player is ultimate choosing early SP over Tenets. I would rather have Tradition or Liberty, full Rationalism and full Commerce and 9+ tenets.

    Not going to happen at Immortal+ even with Poland and a Culture ruin. Not even if you play as well as Tommynt!
     

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