Policies

[Txurce]

The global politics window does show how many policies each leader has acquired in each policy tree. I check it occasionally.

And for that matter, the victory progress screen tells you who has finished the most trees. That oughta train your sights!

 

[bwoww78]

Could there be a more creative way to make the Culture victory more challenging and interesting? For example instead of one Utopia project have three or so to be built? But that would be tedious? What about filling each tree unlocks one project which needs to be built separately and they've have different conditions as well (Tradition needs a capital of size X, Piety needs x temples, Patrionalism needs 4 CS allies, Commerce needs x luxuries)? Would that be possible and feasible? Or too far from the scope of VEM? Together with that you could drop it back to 5 and thus allow some more flexibility.

i definitely agree that this would be a more flavorful and exciting way to pursue a cultural victory (which at a certain point always seems to become a game of just waiting out turns, so long as you're not desperately defending yourself---which at least in my experience never happens because the AI doesn't react to VC like a human would, but that's another issue...).

There is already existing game mechanic along these lines which might be a useful model/tool: spaceship construction for the science victory. in this case, the cultural "spaceship units" would be special buildings unlocked via particular trees and built in one or several different cities:

TRADITION finisher allows construction of a special enhancement to or improved capital building;
LIBERTY finisher allows construction of a happiness/entertainment type memorial (or see freedom below);
HONOR finisher allows construction of a special war memorial;
PIETY finisher allows construction of a special religious site/memorial;
COMMERCE finisher allows construction of a central bank or some sort of industrialist legacy building (trade center?);
PATRONAGE finisher allows construction of a special foreign office/diplomatic type building;
RATIONALISM finisher allows construction of a specialized national research facility;
FREEDOM finisher allows construction of a bill of rights (or something similar) memorial/declaration;
AUTOCRACY finisher allows construction of a special memorial dedicated to the leader;
ORDER finisher allows construction of a special memorial dedicated to the people, like a "Labor Day"/"May Day" memorial.

This is just what first comes to mind, so we can definitely be more creative/historic with the selections for these building types (and if they have any buffs...). I think the fun part is the additional flavor of each building unlocked per tree. They don't necessarily have to be as expensive as spaceship parts, but I think add more complexity/strategy to the game, which is always a good thing, right?

great idea mitsho!

 

[Thalassicus]

Victory conditions are heavily hardcoded in the game core only Firaxis has access to, but if something like that is possible, I'll pursue the idea in the next beta testing phase.

 

[Sneaks]

Victory conditions are heavily hardcoded in the game core only Firaxis has access to, but if something like that is possible, I'll pursue the idea in the next beta testing phase.

I would really caution against anything as gamechanging as a rework of a VC as a part of VEM itself. Perhaps new VCs would belong in a modmod

 

[mitsho]

They don't need to be useful. If they are useful, they detract from the VC and become viable in themselves. So it's a fine line to be walked. More important imho are the other conditions forcing you to spread out some into other parts of the game.

The Project can be famous, in my mind would be like
SP-Tree: Detailled Name / General Name
Tradition: (Hammurabi's) Codex (or Justinians?) / Legal Codex
Liberty: Magna Charta / Declaration of Liberties
Honor: Trajan's Column / Victory Column
Piety: St. Peters Dome /Grand Cathedral
Commerce: World Trade Center
Patronage: Marco Polo's Voyage (Callback to Civ2/3)
Rationalism: Leonardos Workshop (Callback to Civ2/3)
Freedom: Declaration of Human Rights
Order: Labour Day
Autocracy: National Day

@Thal Yeah, it's just more of a side idea, not that important. And it should come together with a enhancement of other Victory Conditions, mainly Diplomacy. But that's game core stuff... so...

 

[Dunkah]

Wow.. I got the one two punch there...

What I meant was that if you could actually see a unit or a building or improvement in a city that could be conquered/ destroyed/ captured as you go along this could make a big difference in the way you try and stop somone who is about to win a Cultural Victory.

Sure you can see who has trees finished currently. But you currently can't do anything about it other than wipe out the civilization/ capitol. Once the Utopian Project is built it's too late to do anything.

By causing Civilizations to build Improvements or Units those could be captured Plundered without actually wiping out another Capitol/ Civ. (A great use of Airborne troops). Science Victories should be the same. Convert a Hex or two into an actual launching pad that can be attacked and destroyed stopping all construction).

 

[Seek]

They don't need to be useful.

The buildings could unlock the tree finishers - if they're not useful, why would anyone build them before completing all the required trees?

(Btw, I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, but it holds promise.)

 

[Txurce]

I would really caution against anything as gamechanging as a rework of a VC as a part of VEM itself. Perhaps new VCs would belong in a modmod

I agree it's more of a modmod than a VEM enhancement.

What I meant was that if you could actually see a unit or a building or improvement in a city that could be conquered/ destroyed/ captured as you go along this could make a big difference in the way you try and stop somone who is about to win a Cultural Victory.

I see what you meant now. This makes sense, assuming what's being built is indeed the equivalent of a SS part.

The buildings could unlock the tree finishers - if they're not useful, why would anyone build them before completing all the required trees?

(Btw, I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, but it holds promise.)

I'm not sold on it yet either, but see the "buildings" like SS parts... something that in total put the civ in an advanced enough place to win the game. They would have no other value. So as you point out, they would not be built until after you completed the requisite number of policy trees.

 

[Thalassicus]

Like SS parts there's value in prebuilding them ahead of time. I generally construct the SS parts as soon as they become available... at that point in the game there's not much else to build. This would still wait until later in the game (wouldn't build the Liberty project right away) but not at the end either. I think the idea is a good one, and will investigate what might be possible in the files at a later time.

 

[Txurce]

I don't consider building SS parts "ahead of time" to be ahead of time. But you're not building the first one after you discover Steel. I would think that building a "culture project building" early in the Medieval era, for example, would probably be an inefficient use of resources. I would also consider tipping off the AI that I am closing in on a CV to be sub-optimal. So I would do exactly what I do with SS parts, which is time them as best I can so the last one can be built asap.

 

[Thalassicus]

I agree, it'd be about timing.

 

[bwoww78]

I agree, it'd be about timing.

which (imho) is more fun than just waiting out the turns as you pump out culture...

 

[tlaurila]

The special building/project at the end of the culture tree could also be tied to the finisher bonus, and/or have other appropriate bonuses. Actually, this kind of building sounds really like a "national wonder" to me! Much more so than what we now have, even.

 

[EsoEs]

I would like to see something added to either maybe a renaissance finisher or maybe an inudstrial opener that gave (just throwing a number out there) -40% to industrial policy costs. Im not sure if this is even possible as we would have to implement a way to either take an industrial policy on a given turn, or wait until a pre industrial policy was available. I guess my point is industrial policies seem really fun but in an average game at standard speed you aren't going to take more than 3 before the game ends.

 

[Dunkah]

I love the idea of tying them to the finishers.

Using a landmark type building that could be destroyed/ captured/ plundered causing you to halt production of Utopia, plus losing that finisher boost until repaired/ rebuilt would be awesome fun.

Trying to do something similiar to space race would be fun too... but not sure what. Perhaps a launchpad tile improvement and each section needs to be brought to it and installed over a course of turns separately from each other.
Would prevent someone from timing all of the parts in separate cities for the same time, or keeping the inventory just outside of the capitol until all of the parts are present then dropping them all on the same turn.

"Yes I am going for a space race victory- what are you going to do about it"! Awesome.

 

[Txurce]

Would prevent someone from timing all of the parts in separate cities for the same time, or keeping the inventory just outside of the capitol until all of the parts are present then dropping them all on the same turn.

Why would you want to prevent the former? As for the latter, I have won countless Science victories, and have never employed it or (more importantly) felt the need to.

 

[Thalassicus]

Presumably it'd be linked to a new AI directive that causes everyone to gang up on someone about to win.

 

[Sneaks]

Man, space parts are already fragile. I have had some nasty bouts of ai nukestravaganzas right before assembling, even taking out a part in transit.

 

[Txurce]

Out of curiosity, did they aim at your in-transit SS part, or hit a city nearby?

 

[Sneaks]

Don't recall but probably city