Poll: Leader

[Irgy]

If we're going to have a run-off poll, we should have it soon.

At the same time though, I don't think there's a need. It's clear enough who's in front, and at the same time not at all clear who the best choice would be for the second candidate in a run-off. We could do a four-way poll for Willem, Darius, Elizabeth and Hannibal but I can't see why the results would be any different to what we have currently.

I'd say we can be pretty happy with ~80% support for Willem Van Orange.

 

[Lord Parkin]

I agree that there's no need for a run-off poll. When I originally proposed this system, I was expecting we'd have to submit a list of several leaders (up to 6) in order of preference, in which case a run-off poll would have been useful. But since we're allowed duplicates and we (at least, most of us) are happy with that, I think just submitting Willem as our #1 is perfectly fine... assuming he maintains the lead for the next day or two, which I can't see why he wouldn't.

 

[Lord Parkin]

By the way, it's a shame you didn't enable viewing who voted for what when you made this poll, Irgy. I find it interesting to check to see which way people are leaning, especially if they're not posting much. But never mind.

 

[champinoman]

I voted for Willem and Liz. Those are 2 of my favourite trait combos and are good in most situations.

 

[pindicator]

Guess it's time to start thinking up some water based tactics

 

[AlphaShard]

I wonder if this means we may go for Colosus or GLH?

 

[Lord Parkin]

If we're picking between the two, Great Lighthouse is the more powerful wonder, so we should consider making a shot for that. That would pair well with a coastal Dike strategy later in the game. Of course, we don't know if someone might have picked an Industrious leader this time around, which could make things more difficult.

 

[AlphaShard]

Do you think we should have a thread on what wonders to go for? Or is it too early yet for that? Like I assume were not going for Stonehenge. I have a feeling that Oracle will be hot one to go for, I mean more then one team is probably thinking of getting it.

I think we should assume the worst and that there will be an enemy Ind leader.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Too early, we need to see our start before deciding what wonders to go for. Although obviously there won't be much point in Stonehenge. If we're coastal, I'd think about the Great Lighthouse early on. If not, obviously the Oracle would be nice, but it'll also probably be fairly popular. Pyramids would be great, but only if we have stone. Great Wall might be a useful one, it's cheap and it's usually not that much contested - plus those Great Spy points come in handy. But again, we'll have to see the start to decide.

 

[azzaman333]

Researching down the mysticism line for wonders is a waste, apart from maybe the Great Lighthouse. The only reason to build the Oracle IMO would really be to deny one of our rivals the chance to sling Feud/CS.

 

[fed1943]

I voted for Willem, but if the surprise map has little water we are on trouble.

 

[Lord Parkin]

The traits are still good even on a map with little water, but it would indeed be a shame if the map has little water. Somehow I doubt that though, because it's going to be Standard size, and if it's mostly land then that makes for too much land without water. Plus, 4/6 of the teams voted for a continents or archipelago setup as their highest preference (or highest preference after "mapmaker's choice), so if we end up getting a mostly-land map, that would rather be going against the wishes of the majority.

 

[Alexander0976]

I usually always do an agg/spir or fin/spir because in this, the anarchy's would really hurt us, but MM's uu lacks strenth in the mid game, which is probably the most important. But we really have to go with financial, because if we don't, it'll be tough. Btw, I pick Asoka, due to cheap religious buildings, and civics aren't so expensive. Just a suggestion.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Actually Anarchy really doesn't matter that much, especially since it only happens for a few turns in the early game, and usually never after that (because anyone can switch civics without Anarchy in a Golden Age, so you just time them carefully).

Asoka is an interesting pick, but Financial is a better trait than Organized if you're looking to save money, and cheap Libraries are more useful than cheap Temples because you typically want a Library in many more cities than a Temple (and earlier). Also, Asoka's UU isn't exactly powerful in the mid-game. The UB is okay, though almost as late as the Dike - and the Dike is far, far more powerful. Hence why I (and the vast majority of others) are in favour of Willem.

 

[Alexander0976]

Wait, before we say we're going for Great Lighthouse, we need to remember that the Moai Statues would really help us. Sounds useless, but ppl forget that the Moai Statues are National, but extremely useful if built in the beginning of the game. And if we're Dutch, even though I prefer Portugees.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Moai Statues are certainly nice, but because they're a National Wonder they can wait. If we put off something like the Great Lighthouse (assuming we go for it), then we will very likely lose it against five intelligent human opponents. Whereas we can safely build the Moai Statues at any time. Of course, it's better to build them earlier rather than later, but you also need to prioritise other wonders (not to mention expansion). Don't forget as well that the Moai Statues are quite an expensive build in the early game without Stone, and we definitely can't rely on having access to that from the start.

Why do you prefer the Portuguese over the Dutch? Sure, the UU is quite neat (so is the Netherlands UU), but the UB is effectively useless... coming into the game later than the Dike, and giving a very small benefit of +1 commerce on coast/sea tiles - which Willem's Financial trait has already had for the entire game.

 

[azzaman333]

Actually Anarchy really doesn't matter that much, especially since it only happens for a few turns in the early game, and usually never after that (because anyone can switch civics without Anarchy in a Golden Age, so you just time them carefully).

Asoka is an interesting pick, but Financial is a better trait than Organized if you're looking to save money, and cheap Libraries are more useful than cheap Temples because you typically want a Library in many more cities than a Temple (and earlier). Also, Asoka's UU isn't exactly powerful in the mid-game. The UB is okay, though almost as late as the Dike - and the Dike is far, far more powerful. Hence why I (and the vast majority of others) are in favour of Willem.

You seriously underrate Spiritual. If you're only changing civics a handful of times during the game with Spi, you're wasting your trait. You have access to whatever civics you need at whatever time you need them, so take advantage of it.

I'd still prefer Hatty over Willem but I get the idea there's not much (none) support for my proposition.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Going from Willem to Hatty trades Financial for Spiritual though. I'm not sure that trade is worth it, personally.

 

[azzaman333]

But it gives a much better UU, and an UB that's useful from very early in the game (and even more useful with Angkor Wat).

 

[Lord Parkin]

It does kind of put all our cards in the early game though, and gives us quite a risk of falling behind if we don't take someone out quickly. If this map is anything like the last one, a Chariot rush may not be even feasible.