Poll: Replace Pathfinder starting unit?

[jwfoo555]

Does anyone else get ticked off by starting with the former vanilla Shoshone Pathfinder unit no matter what civ you're playing? To my knowledge there are no versions of the Ethnic Diversity mod that change this, and I haven't been able to find any mod that either replaces the unit (without messing with anything else), or changes the unit model (and preferably the unit icon and Civilopedia entry). Anyone know any solutions? Maybe a submission to VP Congress ?

 

[Arthur Jama]

I am personally indifferent, that said I guess you could find another model from an existing mod and submit it to the congress

 

[CppMaster]

IDC, haven't played vanilla in looooong time. Why would I?

 

[Tekamthi]

The early recon unit could use some thematic tweaks. Slinger is similarly unrealistic in early game; but in the paradigm of these very loosely goosey abstractions, and the limited art assets available, the pathfinder never really stood out to me as needing a fix. Gameplay wise it seems to work fine.

I think the trouble with 4000 BC copper/stone age is we have no significant historical record detailing military divisions from back then. From what I've seen we can reasonably conclude there was some kind of "warrior" role in societies at that time, but that's about it. The rest of what we have in VP as far as early recon and ranged is just made up.

When I read "more culturally universal pathfinder", the only solution that comes to mind is deleting the unit entirely

 

[azum4roll]

Same with all units that were originally unique.

 

[jwfoo555]

Well, looks like I'm in the minority, and seems like something best solved by something like Dolen's Ethnic Diversity, I'll take my gripes over there then. @azum4roll , what a coincidence! Do you know where to get the latest version of Communitu_79a that's included in VP?

 

[Tekamthi]

Well, looks like I'm in the minority, and seems like something best solved by something like Dolen's Ethnic Diversity, I'll take my gripes over there then. @azum4roll , what a coincidence! Do you know where to get the latest version of Communitu_79a that's included in VP? View attachment 669965

i think there is indeed some appetite for better thematic/historical alignment -- question is what would we call this pathfinder replacement? and what historical info do we fill the civilopedia page with?

 

[Rekk]

i think there is indeed some appetite for better thematic/historical alignment -- question is what would we call this pathfinder replacement? and what historical info do we fill the civilopedia page with?

And what culture gets to be the representative of it?

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I remember when it was changed, and to be honest I didn't really like it in the beginning. Now I'm not just got used to it, but actually kinda like it, or at least really don't mind.

While yes, it's true that both the icon and model has a very strong Native American look, I think it also not too far away from being a "general" Ancient era unit - people wore somewhat similar clothes and possibly had not too far away looks (the only exception could be the feather, but maybe that is also not).

And also yes, ethnic diversity would be amazing, I'd incredibly happy for it. Unfortunately however, as far as I know such mods (like the mentioned ethnic diversity mod) has serious limitations due to the game memory limitations when it comes to art assets, so "general" units is probably the best we can do.

 

[Tekamthi]

And what culture gets to be the representative of it?

thats what i'm saying... for that matter what generalized role in copper/stone age society should be represented, and where is the historical record supporting such a notion? my understanding of that era suggests there should be no combat units other than the warrior, if we're going for accuracy. I am no ancient historian, however

 

[jwfoo555]

i think there is indeed some appetite for better thematic/historical alignment -- question is what would we call this pathfinder replacement? and what historical info do we fill the civilopedia page with?

The first few lines of the vanilla are already good, it's just that the rest of the entry and the unit model is based on Native Americans which breaks immersion for other civs. The name pathfinder is fine too, and the vanilla scout would have been perfect if it wasn't the upgrade unit. Perhaps someone could remove the headress slightly alter the garb?

"...some members were trusted as superior scouts, relied upon to carry out critical duties for the nomads. Called by a variety of titles, these "pathfinders" tracked game and enemies, scouted routes for migration, spied on foes and interlopers, and protected the winter encampments."

 

[Tekamthi]

it's just that the rest of the entry and the unit model is based on Native Americans which breaks immersion for other civs.

This is not really true. This "pathfinder" role never really existed in native american society -- not as any kind of distinction from the warrior role anyway. And the headwear as depicted is very loosely representative of some tribal, in-nature style -- it's based on European/settler fantasy primarily; the equivalent maybe would be to have a scout unit where all members wore the crowns of European Kings/Queens on their heads, or at least the trappings of nobilities and courts etc. Maybe the wigs that used to be common in Europe

All you really need to do I think is make version with different skin colors and you're more or less culturally universal on this unit. Maybe a different hat per continent of origin

In any case the "immersion" concern re: visual representation exists for every unit in the game, just about; it's not any worse for pathfinder.

I'd get behind this if we can actually find a dedicated scouting "profession" in copper age that spanned more than one continent. I do agree with the concern re: historical inaccuracy but there is no apparent replacement that would do any better in this regard

 

[ma_kuh]

Early scouts are just an abstraction for your populace roaming the surrounding territory and sharing stories of what they come across. I don't really interpret Pathfinder/Scout as the military role until much later.

And there's no way I can care that everyone has access to a "native american" unit when everyone has access to triremes and mounted archers. It's a concession to simplicity that equal-powered and equal-teched unit roles have to pick someone's unit to be the default. Not all heavy melee warriors used swords, after all. But in this game they do.

 

[4CV]

I have no problem with the headdress of the pathfinder, because I'm pretty sure that vanity was as common as birds and their feathers on almost every continent 5000 years ago....

 

[Stalker0]

And there's no way I can care that everyone has access to a "native american" unit when everyone has access to triremes and mounted archers. It's a concession to simplicity that equal-powered and equal-teched unit roles have to pick someone's unit to be the default. Not all heavy melee warriors used swords, after all. But in this game they do.

My thoughts exactly. Especially so early in history where so much of our understanding of their real culture is gone, any choice we make it automatically wrong, so best to just pick one that at least the players "think" represents early man and just go with that. Trying to get any more culturally appropriate than that is just folly.

 

[N.Core]

Besides, what's wrong with using already existing well-made assets? I hate that VP does this to Privateer and Anti-Tank models. Those are well-made assets and they are just left unused in VP.

 

[usadefcon1]

Does anyone else get ticked off by starting with the former vanilla Shoshone Pathfinder unit no matter what civ you're playing? To my knowledge there are no versions of the Ethnic Diversity mod that change this, and I haven't been able to find any mod that either replaces the unit (without messing with anything else), or changes the unit model (and preferably the unit icon and Civilopedia entry). Anyone know any solutions? Maybe a submission to VP Congress ?

You can put this line of code into any sql file and it will change the pathfinder art into the scout art:

UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Model = 'scout.fxsxml' WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_U_SHOSHONE_PATHFINDER';