Poll: Which Civs to be Added

Which Civs would you like in addition to the 24 in PTW. Vote for no more than 7.

  • Abyssinian/Ethiopian

    Votes: 35 46.7%
  • Aborigine

    Votes: 13 17.3%
  • Austrian

    Votes: 6 8.0%
  • Dutch

    Votes: 17 22.7%
  • Hittites

    Votes: 8 10.7%
  • Hungarians

    Votes: 7 9.3%
  • Inca

    Votes: 52 69.3%
  • Israelites

    Votes: 25 33.3%
  • Macedon

    Votes: 5 6.7%
  • Mali/Songhai

    Votes: 21 28.0%
  • Mayan

    Votes: 26 34.7%
  • Phoenician

    Votes: 13 17.3%
  • Polish

    Votes: 36 48.0%
  • Polynesian

    Votes: 40 53.3%
  • Portuguese

    Votes: 15 20.0%
  • Siamese/Thai

    Votes: 25 33.3%
  • Sioux/Dakota

    Votes: 31 41.3%
  • Slavs

    Votes: 8 10.7%
  • Tibetan

    Votes: 36 48.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 20.0%

  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .

Kal-el

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Sween32 got the ball rolling when he started his thread What Civs are Missing from Civ3 . I was hoping to get some more input from the rest of you. As such I am posting this poll in hopes of getting a broader base of information upon which to base judgment.

PTW will allow up to 31 civs to be played on a map at one time. There are currently 16 civs in the game and PTW adds 8 bringing the total to 24. Which civs should be added to fill out the other 7 playable positions?

The 8 civs being added in PTW:
Arabian
Carthaginian
Celts
Koreans
Mongols
Ottomans
Spanish
Vikings

Edit:
taken from one my later posts in this thread, just thought I would add it to this top post
One thing that has to be taken into consideration when determing which civs to be added is the tech rate. The more civs you have in a given region the faster those civs are going to burn through the tech tree, what with trading and everything. I think this is one of the reasons that Firaxis overloaded EurAsia with civs and left other regions like Africa and the Americas so sparsely populated.

A lot of people complain that when starting in the Americas even if they are burning through the tech tree as fast as they can, by the time they make contact with the Eurasians they are so far behind on account of the increased trading opportunities of those civs. To me, that makes the game more realistic, and I prefer it that way.

The solution is to reevaluate the tech costs to compensate for the increased number of Eurasian civs so that they do not get to tanks before 0 AD.

Playing as one of the more isolated civs then should be looked at as more of a challenge to defy history. Polynesia for example, they will be hard pressed to not be easy pickings for the Eurasian explorers. But it seems to me that it would be a great gaming experience as you race to colonize the south pacific, hoping beyond hope that you don't see an English Frigate come sailing up to your shores.

I am working on the theory that all civs will be played at the same time. I am also working on the presumption that the game will be played on a world map. If it is not then the tech rate issue is irrelevant.
Using that as a basis for my decision the Seven civs I am initially adding to my DyP mod are:

Abyssinians
Inca
Poland
Polynesia
Siam
Sioux
Tibet
 
If you choose other, would you mind listing what other civ you are interested in seeing. It may be possible to alter the poll if 1 civ is getting a lot of write ins and one of the above is getting no votes.
 
The only vote I changed was a switch from Aborigine to Phoenician. I wish Shockwave would have brought them up earlier then he did ;)
 
Here's my list:

Abyssinian/Ethiopian
Inca
Mayan
Polish
Polynesian
Sioux/Dakota
Tibetan

I would also love to add in the Phoenicians, but I would prefer to replace them with the Carthagenians though :)

Glad that things are looking up for Tibet and Poland - two very underrated civ's IMHO.
 
So far civs that are ahead look excactly the same as the results of my debate, except with the Sioux instead of the Aborigine.
 
One thing that has to be taken into consideration when determing which civs to be added is the tech rate. The more civs you have in a given region the faster those civs are going to burn through the tech tree, what with trading and everything. I think this is one of the reasons that Firaxis overloaded EurAsia with civs and left other regions like Africa and the Americas so sparsely populated.

A lot of people complain that when starting in the Americas even if they are burning through the tech tree as fast as they can, by the time they make contact with the Eurasians they are so far behind on account of the increased trading opportunities of those civs. To me, that makes the game more realistic, and I prefer it that way.

The solution is to reevaluate the tech costs to compensate for the increased number of Eurasian civs so that they do not get to tanks before 0 AD.

Playing as one of the more isolated civs then should be looked at as more of a challenge to defy history. Polynesia for example, they will be hard pressed to not be easy pickings for the Eurasian explorers. But it seems to me that it would be a great gaming experience as you race to colonize the south pacific, hoping beyond hope that you don't see an English Frigate come sailing up to your shores.

I am working on the theory that all civs will be played at the same time. I am also working on the presumption that the game will be played on a world map. If it is not then the tech rate issue is irrelevant.
 
Just a short note: my 'other' vote goes to the Uralic tribes - call them Finns if you want to pin them to a modern-day country, although that's not the whole picture. Hungarians aren't doing well in the poll, despite being somewhat associated with this group, probably due to the overcrowding of Europe. Start the Fenno-Sami civilisation over by the Urals themselves, and block the Russians from expanding too fast!
 
Just a note here, I never play world maps. As such, my decisions are going to be based on the most 'interesting' and deserving civilizations, not the ones that would fit best on a world map.

Here are my opinions on all the Civilizations in this list. I'll mostly choose civilizations based on how unique they are, how well-known they are, how interesting their leader will be, and how fun they'll be to play for/against.

Abysinnia/Ethiopia Definitely. They had an impressive culture for such a poor region, and we need more African representation. I'd also choose Ethiopia over Abysinnia. All Abysinnia gave us was cats ;)

Aborigine I'd say that Australia needs the representation, and the Aborigine are the only true choice. Some people claim that they never developed past the stone age, so shouldn't be counted. But the Aztecs, Iriquois, Babylonians, Romans, etcetera never developed into the Modern Age. Does that mean they shouldn't be included either?

Austrian I don't consider this a true civilization, just another European political division.

Dutch Although they are definitely a worthy civilization, we have *way* too many European civilizations in the game already. Dump 'em.

Hittites Errr... Who?

Hungarians Although slightly more deserving, I still think they fall under the same problem as the Austrians.

Inca As one of the most important civilizations in the Americas, I say they definitely deserve to be in. For their time and location, the architecture and road system they built was incredible

Israel/JudeaThe Israelites began religious roles, rites, traditions, and attitudes that infiltrated almost all of European civilization, and then most of the world. I'd say they definitely deserve a spot.

Macedon I am not voting for a civilization that sounds like a cookie. Besides, aren't they just a division of Greece, or am I mistaken?

Phoenicians Alright civilization, but there are too many similar civilizations already represented

Polish Yet another European civilization. I honestly don't see why they get so much support, since their empires have always been small, they've never been extraordinary in any respect, their culture seems to me to be a mini-Russia, and they keep getting trounced in modern times.

Polynesian They've built an impressive culture on some chunks of land in the middle of the world's largest ocean. Quite impressive ^_^

Portuguese It fits in with Spain, France, and England, but we have too many European civilizations with similar traits already. There just isn't enough differentiating them from other similar civilizations.

Siamese/Thai I don't know much about these peoples.

Sioux/Dakota Although I'm a fan of Native American rights, I don't think they need to be over-represented. Besides, I've never been a big fan of the Sioux. If you want a good Native American civilization, I'd choose the Anasazi.
The Anasazi built a massive culture in the middle of the South-West desert. They had those huge pueblos built into the sides of mesas, and had an extensive system to gather food in the area.

Slavs I am not choosing a civilization that gains a total of one sentence in my history book...

Tibetan Unique, well-known, interesting leader. That's what I'm looking for in a random map game, so I say let 'em in :goodjob:

Other The only other civilizations I suggest are the Anasazi and the Australians. I say the Anasazi because the American Southwest could use filling out for all you RW players, and I believe they were the most advanced of the American civilizations, not counting the "Big Three" Inca, Aztecs, and Maya.
I also suggest the Australians because that continent needs to be filled out, and if the Aborigine don't make it in, then Australia is a good choice. Hey, America made it in ^_^ I still say the Aborigine would be best though.
 
I find rather funny to ask civilization that is mostly based into "religion" and monks that are waiting for Nirvana...

No offence meant here but there aren't so much meaning with religion in Civilization so I think my votes go for those civilizations that try to swallow smaller and possible peaceful civilizations...like chinese are.

I think the game of civilization is about conquering with the way or another and even though tibetians might once had some fierce warriors I think there are many other civilizations that should be given better chance.

I think aboriginals is also one of the civilization shouldn't ever be in the game unless the game structure changes completely. I believe that the way of living that Tibetians and Aboriginals present is extremely hard to describe in some simple game like civilization. I think it would be almost "insult" towards those civilizations add them to game and start then nuking others.

I think this game isn't that sophisticated it could any near future hold civilizations like that.

My picks would be...
- Etiopian
One more African civilization is needed so that is good pick.
- Dutch/Portuguese
Why to include either of them? Maybe because they were once the commercial power like England was. I think it's matter of taste which one to pick.
- Inca
Macchu Picchu. Need to say more?
- Sioux
One of the native tribes of Great plains should be included. And Iroquois isn't one. Sioux could present also other indians from that area. I think Sioux are better known than quietly living and not so organized Pueblos/Hopis/Navajos.
- Polynesian
There should civilization from that area so that is settled.
- Israel
When one small country gets whole world attention all the time so why not? And they make great archenemies for...
- Hungarian/Austrian/Polish
Hard to pick one of them. Hungarian and Austrian civilizations could be included as one like it once was...

BTW that signature of Veera Anlai could work the other way around too.
 
Originally posted by Dragon Warrior
Why not the Canadians, sure we arent a military power but it whould be nice to have them( I cant believe nobody has made a mounty yet! )

The Canadians, like the Aborigine, would be a good civ to play in a mod or scenario. But not really in the regular game. Just use Dark Sheers "Bandit" as a mountie. It looks exactly like one.
 
Glad to see some of the "exotic" civs are leading. Nothing at ALL against Europeans, but Civ3 really has a bais towards those cultures.
I really like seeing ideas being tossed around regarding some of the important (during their historical periods) civs such as Inca, Thai, Polyesian cultures.
 
Well I was 'helping' out with Sween on the original thread and since I first posted my suggetions, my ideas have changed a lot :)

My vote for the final seven (in this 'round') are...

Abyssinian/Ethiopian - Deff. I don't think (on an Earth map) that one more African civ will make a big difference in the tech rate, if anything it will keep it slightly more balanced once we add..

The Dutch - Another maritime civ that will help fill out the age of sail IMO

Hittities - Dunno, just something I like about them right now, I mean would you argue with a Civ that controlled nearly all the worlds Iron and secrets of working it when Iron was first 'discovered'?

Inca - You need a reason?

Polynesians - A no brainer IMO, need these in, said it since day one :)

Phoenicians - Another civ I have a thing for right now, though tbh it would depends on how they implement the Carthagians in PtW. A huge trading and maritime civ in the ancient times, deff a unique civ at the time.

Sioux - Helps to cause some more conflict in the US, would prefer them to replace America but, adding them would do nicely :)
 
Originally posted by Veera Anlai
Hittites Errr... Who?
They first to effectively use Iron Weapons - and when I say effectively, I mean they terrorized Mesopotamia and Egypt for several hundred years and eventually sacked Babylon.
Sioux/Dakota Although I'm a fan of Native American rights, I don't think they need to be over-represented. Besides, I've never been a big fan of the Sioux. If you want a good Native American civilization, I'd choose the Anasazi.[/B]
Err.... Who? ;)
Honestly, I know who they are, but I really don't see what impact they made on history - the Hohokam or Mogollon cultures would be justifiable too if the Anasazi were put in.
Slavs I am not choosing a civilization that gains a total of one sentence in my history book...
I think you should blame the Author for that blunder, not the Slavs. :D

Originally posted by ViceRoy
I believe that the way of living that Tibetians and Aboriginals present is extremely hard to describe in some simple game like civilization. I think it would be almost "insult" towards those civilizations add them to game and start then nuking others.
The way of living that Babylonians and Inca present in present times is also very hard to describe, as they are quite gone in a way - the Tibetans have a history too - they were not always about Monks and Farming and waiting around for Nirvana - If luck had been with them we could have been talking about the Tibetan Horde, rather than the Mongol ditto today.
 
The way of living that Babylonians and Inca present in present times is also very hard to describe, as they are quite gone in a way - the Tibetans have a history too - they were not always about Monks and Farming and waiting around for Nirvana - If luck had been with them we could have been talking about the Tibetan Horde, rather than the Mongol ditto today. [/B]

But would you like to see Tibetan horde advancing your cities or nuking your citizens and then suddenly Dalai Lama would step up asking for tribute? I just don't see it happen really...
With Babylonians and Incas that isn't problem really as they both had in their golden period leader that can represent power of nation.
 
I'm fairly sure the Carthaginians and Phoenecians are one and the same. The Phoenecians were wiped out by the Romans in the last of the wars between those two civs. One of the prior wars involved elephants and a guy named Hannibal.

Oh yeah, the capital of the Phoenecians was Carthage.

Two different terms for the same civ really.
 
Originally posted by ViceRoy
But would you like to see Tibetan horde advancing your cities or nuking your citizens and then suddenly Dalai Lama would step up asking for tribute? I just don't see it happen really...
Nor do I - The Dalai Lama is the title of the religious leader, so making him the Civ3 leader of the Tibetans, would be a bit like making the Pope the leader of Rome, IMHO. I would choose Sron-btsan-sgampo, the first of the Three Great Kings, and the one who "kicked off" the Tibetan golden age. But that is a discussion for a different thread, I think.

About the Carthage vs. Phoenicia discussion:
The Phoenicians founded the city of Carthage in 814, and it gained it's independence when the Phoenician principal city Tyre was conquered by the Babylonians around 580 BC. The Carthagenians then gained control of the remaining Phoenician colonies (mostly without any arguments as they all considered themselves Phoenicians - and there were many colonies spread all over the Mediterranean) and was regarded an empire around 500 BC. The City (and empire) of Carthage was destroyed by Romans at the end of the Third Punic war, 146 BC.

In a way, deciding whether Carthagenians or Phoenicians should be in the game is a bit like discussing whether England or USA should be in the game, I guess. :D
 
Originally posted by Isak
Nor do I - The Dalai Lama is the title of the religious leader, so making him the Civ3 leader of the Tibetans, would be a bit like making the Pope the leader of Rome, IMHO.

Joan of Arc was a Saint. I'm sure some people don't think it's right to see a Saint have cleavage. And even though she was a fighter, she never killed anybody and I'm sure she'd never fire nuclear weapons.
 
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