Poll: Which Civs to be Added

[Kal-el]

Sher•pa

Pronunciation: (sher'pu, shûr'-)
—n.,
—pl. -pas, (esp. collectively) -pa.
1. a member of a people of Tibetan stock living in the Nepalese Himalayas, who often serve as porters on mountain-climbing expeditions.

I am having a hell of a time coming up with any type of UU for Tibet and this was the closest I could find. :| The other option was the Gurkha, but they are Nepalese too.

 

[Jewell Man]

Originally posted by Isak
- Having a religious leader as automatic president until he dies, sounds a lot like a theocracy to me. I'm having a hard time connecting it with Democracy.

Democracy simply implies that the people may choose their representatives and that there exist constitutional limitations put on the power of the leader. The Tibetan situation is not unlike other countries who have an elected parliament presided over by a heritary monarch.. such as Canada, England, etc.. Does this mean that Canada and England are not democracies?

 

[Isak]

Ehhrmm... to the best of my knowledge, if Queen Lizzie said: "Jump!", the british wouldn't give a toss.

She (and the other constitutional monarchs) has no actual power whatsoever - if indeed she had any such power and chose to invoke it, she could most likely kiss England goodbye forever.

I live in Denmark - we have the same constitutional monarchy here, and the Queen (whom most people love and adore) is allowed to ratify the government after an election. If she chose not to, a few politicians would laugh their a***s off and throw her out the door.

Dalai Lama is a spiritual and religious leader of an oppressed country - I can assure you, if he says jump - the Tibetans are already 3 ft. above the ground.

Btw - please remember that Tibet is currently under communist rule - it may dream of being a democracy, and if given a chance, it may well turn into a democracy - but currently, it is not, and we are debating a hypothetical situation.

 

[Senoj]

You are just about right there Isak! Our Monarchy is pretty much invisible! Well it is the the further away you go from London. However at the recent death of Queen Elizibeth 'The Queen Mum' it's supposed to of strengthened! Wrong! The royal family are mererly celebraties in my eyes! PS I'm from North East England

 

[kemal69]

Brings to mind the fact that australia recently had a referendum to decide if we should become a republic with our own head of state instead of the british head of state. Whilst the referendum declined the proposed models for a republic, the british monarchy did not express approval for our plans. In fact I think the Queen said something to the affect she would be dissapointed. We still went ahead with the referendum anyway.

Our shared monarchy is totally invisible insofar as power is concerned. We have closer ties to the US and pacific rim than england these days.

 

[Jewell Man]

Ahhh.. you people all underestimate the power of symbolism. That's where the Dalai Lama gets so much of his influence. Again, I say that the Tibetan Goverment in Exile is not that different from the constitutional monarchy of England and so forth. Sure - he has a LOT more influence. But if England were ever occupied by China and the Queen was forced to flee with a bunch of her subjects I guarantee you her influence would skyrocket too EVEN if it was merely symbolic. It doesn't matter if the royals have no real legal power, they represent the heart and spirit of the country. Now granted, in these days of tabloid and mass media they are quickly losing their appeal, especially offshore. But then if Tibet and its people were living in a modern democracy with access to mass media and entertainment and Disney and Sony and Budweiser and large middle class and capitalism and stockmarkets.. etc etc etc ... I GUARANTEE you the Dalai Lama would become little more than a famous monk.

 

[Amenhotep IV]

Originally posted by Veera Anlai
Polish Yet another European civilization. I honestly don't see why they get so much support, since their empires have always been small, they've never been extraordinary in any respect, their culture seems to me to be a mini-Russia, and they keep getting trounced in modern times.

Errr... what?! Polish culture = mini-Rusiian culture?! Polish empire has always been small?!
No offence meant, but I suggest studying (at least to catch the general idea) the history of Poland. I'm Polish, that's true, but even if I weren't, Poland, Spain and generally speaking - Vikings (Scandinavians) are the first European Great Powers to be added to Civ3 apart from those which already are included. (the two will come with PTW, but Polish won't )
Besides, the Polish in XVI century had almost 1 mln sq km under their control. If you know that the area of Europe is about 10 mln sq km then Poland was as big as 10% land area of Europe. Do you know any other Great Powers apart from the Germans, Russians, French and Romans and maybe Swedish with as big land area of Europe in their history??? Maybe I forgot one or two civs to list here, but even the English never controlled so much of the territory of Europe. Speaking about the culture, I can only say that the whole Warsaw was destroyed in the II WW not mentioning other cities so e.g. how to expect Polish monuments to be equally good as the Western European?

While I was choosing my civs, the first thing I thought about were the 'gaps' on the World map, which need to be filled up
Finally, my list of civs:
Abyssinia - I think the real name was Aksum - the christian kingdom, which had its Golden Ages in IV and V century, but I may be mistaken
Inca - no comments
Songhai - Africa needs them. Carthage, Egypt, Abissynia, Songhai, Zulus... this continets is eventually becoming interesting.
Tibetan - although they didn't have a big impact on the World's history it would be nice to play them.
Sioux and Mayan

and Khmers - I can't believe nobody thought about them. Houdrets of years of great history, magnificient temples in Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom.... apart from Incas they are my number 1.

 

[Kal-el]

Khmers: I guess I kind of included them in with the whole Siam/Thailand bunch as they ruled that same area.

Aksum/Abyssinia/Ethiopia: Its all the same thing sort of.

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by Jewell Man
Ahhh.. you people all underestimate the power of symbolism. That's where the Dalai Lama gets so much of his influence.

The Dalai Lama is not a name - It is a title meaning "Ocean of Wisdom". Speaking about the present day Dalai Lama is really not very representative of the Tibetan government (which, if you would all care to go back a few pages, was my point in the first place ) - the present day Dalai Lama is not a leader in any way except that he is a spiritual leader as a symbol/advocate of the struggle to free Tibet.

But before Manchuria invaded Tibet, there was a Theocratic government, known as Ganden Phodrang, which was established by the fifth Dalai Lama, with himself (and his re-incarnations) as the supreme ruler. That government is still the one in operation in Tibet, though under communist rule. So the Dalai Lama is not just a symbolic leader - he is the leader.

Again, I say that the Tibetan Goverment in Exile is not that different from the constitutional monarchy of England and so forth.

Except that the Government in Exile has no control over what goes on in Tibet - it governs nothing. The situation you lay out is what it will most likely be if Tibet is ever given independence - but it never has been like this, and isn't like that at the moment.

But if England were ever occupied by China and the Queen was forced to flee with a bunch of her subjects I guarantee you her influence would skyrocket too EVEN if it was merely symbolic.

That's why I pointed out that the current Dalai Lama is the leader of an oppressed country - of course, a situation like that can give a leader tremendous popularity and influence - but the Dalai Lamas were influential, before the present one was forced to flee.

But then if Tibet and its people were living in a modern democracy with access to mass media and entertainment and Disney and Sony and Budweiser and large middle class and capitalism and stockmarkets.. etc etc etc ... I GUARANTEE you the Dalai Lama would become little more than a famous monk.

But they're not, are they? And that's 'cause they are a Theocracy under communist rule

 

[€ønqui$tadør]

i'm not sure how many of u have seen it, but i almost missed it had i not visited the Completed Modpacks section.

piernik's created this absolutely fabulous King Casimir(Kazimierz) leaderhead in his Polish civ modpack. here's the link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30658

i recommend u guys give it a try!

 

[Gandolf]

So, is Sween really looking at this thread to decide which leaderheads to do? Or are we just spinning our wheels here?

 

[Kal-el]

I am not sure how closely Sween is looking at this poll. I can only hope he is.

Any comments from the master animator? Sween are you paying attention to this thread?

 

[Pangur Bán]

I think Sween is aware that there are about ten polls on the topic, so there is no reason to look at this one in particular. He has made an excellent Robert the Bruce leaderhead for the Scots (excluded from this poll in favor of Hungary and Poland ).

 

[sween32]

I have been very busy with the Coalition, but I will make the frontrunners of the poll.

I've already done the Inca, and Poland was already done by Piernik. I'm currently working on Ethiopia.

After that is done, I will make Polynesia. I think I read somewhere that my mentor GhengisFarb might make a Tibetan leaderhead. So, if he does I guess Sioux would come after that, or Israel.

 

[Kal-el]

I have posted some good pics for King Kamehameha of Hawaii, Songsten Gampo of Tibet, King Mongkut of Siam, and Sitting Bull of the Sioux over on the leaderhead request thread. In case you are looking for references.

 

[Kal-el]

 

[Isak]

[bump]

Five more days before the votes are counted. Remember, You need to register to vote.

I'm sure the Macedonians can still make it in the final 7 - just 20 votes to go, for them.

 

[guyincorner]

hmmm do big fat shot gun totting red necks count as a civ



darn haha that would make a good unit idea

 

[Veera Anlai]

hmmm do big fat shot gun totting red necks count as a civ

Yeah, the Confederacy. Which was my next Civilization idea ^_^ Jefferson Davis, here I come!

 

[SwampthingGreen]

what does bump mean?