Pollution: A life and death issue

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well...I think more money should be put into Fuel Cells and Energy sources of the future. Oil is so....20th century. You know how much money people would save if they didn't have to pay for gas?

 

[Japher]

I agree... Also, I prefer organic pesticides over the alternatives. The thing is, the environmentalist thought they would make this one change and not have to regulate any more... wrongo!

 

[amadeus]

I find it interesting how the target of this article is industrialized (e.g. wealthy) countries.

Walk around New York City and Calcutta and you tell me where people are dying from air pollution.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

You do raise an interesting point. The pictures look like they are from third world nations, and the target is first world in nature.

 

[amadeus]

That picture is absolutely certain to be from China.

You won't find any bikes in New York unless you go to Central Park, and even there, they were pretty rare (from when I was there in August.)

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

They did wear masks like that because of the fear of viruses like SARS, not pollution per say.

 

[Yom]

I'm a bit skeptical, I'd like to see that study.

Pollution is definitly a major problem, I think the best solution is impact fees, fuel taxes, and certain criminal/civil charges for doing really nasty stuff. This way we can reduce pollution and not go overboard and ban certain items.

Exactly. Give companies and individuals to waste and pollute less. For instance, charge people per pound of waste they put out. Make the right high enough and pollution would decrease a lot. The problem is you'd need more police officers to make sure there isn't illegal dumping (which would have to carry a higher fine).

 

[Perfection]

Exactly. Give companies and individuals to waste and pollute less. For instance, charge people per pound of waste they put out.

Well, I think it's not as big a problem for trash disposal (it's problematic but not world threatening) we've got a private sector that deals with that

Make the right high enough and pollution would decrease a lot.

Of course, I wouldn't advocate making it too high, the key is to raise funds to alleviate the negative effects and give economic incentives to change not to cause a dirastic reduction in relatively short time periods.

The problem is you'd need more police officers to make sure there isn't illegal dumping (which would have to carry a higher fine).

Legalize and tax recreational drugs, and your problem is solved.

 

[Pirate]

What will most likely happen can already be seen in my local grocery store: environmentally-friendly products such as cage-free eggs, organic lettuce, etc. are MORE expensive than their generic counterparts, not cheaper.

Could be because the store doesn't have a lot of politically-correct stuff to sell (smaller supply = higher price) or it could be because the store realized there's a niche market that wants these goods and is willing to pay for them.

Additionally--seeing as how, as you said, customer pressure is all about price--if you put an artificial price pressure on an item (such as fines on goods made by "dirty" methods), there will be immediate customer pressure through their Congress members to remove that artificial price pressure. Items such as car bumpers are an exception to this rule--however, what usually happens there is, the customer says he or she should receive stronger bumpers without having to pay the extra costs.....

The point is that these externalities are not artificial. They are the actual costs of the product. The current price is artificial because it is subsidized by all the other health and environmental clean-up programs that counteract the polluting effects. The producer and consumers don't have to pay the full cost in the price of the product. You can bet if they did there would be some pressure to cut those costs.
I'm sorry I don't have more information on externalities - unfortunately discussion is usually limited to industry meetings or college classrooms. Do a quick google search for "environmental externalities" and you should get an idea of what I mean. I'd like to share more, but I'm gone for the next couple of days and a bit tired right now.

 

[Yom]

Well, I think it's not as big a problem for trash disposal (it's problematic but not world threatening) we've got a private sector that deals with that

Of course, I wouldn't advocate making it too high, the key is to raise funds to alleviate the negative effects and give economic incentives to change not to cause a dirastic reduction in relatively short time periods.

Legalize and tax recreational drugs, and your problem is solved.

No disagreements here.

 

[Yom]

Additionally--seeing as how, as you said, customer pressure is all about price--if you put an artificial price pressure on an item (such as fines on goods made by "dirty" methods), there will be immediate customer pressure through their Congress members to remove that artificial price pressure. Items such as car bumpers are an exception to this rule--however, what usually happens there is, the customer says he or she should receive stronger bumpers without having to pay the extra costs.....

Who cares what the people think? Leave their deception to the politicians. I'm sure someone will be able to convince them that it's a good thing. It's economists' jobs to dictate policy and the people's job to listen and act accordingly.

 

[stormbind]

You do raise an interesting point. The pictures look like they are from third world nations, and the target is first world in nature.

We operate in a global economy. China and India are massive producers within that, where productivity and waste are subject to the whims of market demands in the US and EU (among others).

 

[BasketCase]

if you put an artificial price pressure on an item (such as fines on goods made by "dirty" methods), there will be immediate customer pressure through their Congress members to remove that artificial price pressure.

The point is that these externalities are not artificial. They are the actual costs of the product. The current price is artificial because it is subsidized by all the other health and environmental clean-up programs that counteract the polluting effects.

If you spend nothing to clean up the environmental problems caused by manufacturing something the cheap and dirty way, then the "subsidized" cost to clean up is zero.

That may sound ridiculous to you (actually it sounds ridiculous to me too--it's unsustainable in the very long term), bu that is in fact the actual environmental policy of many nations.

 

[Goober]

Yes, pollution is serious, and, if we don't save our land, everything will be polluted, and earth will be so polluted that we all die. Then we find another planet.

Seriously though, I'm not too worried about pollution. Earth can adapt, us humans can adapt if it gets really bad. I mean, my city is one of the only in Canada to pump our sewage into the ocean raw. Many say its a bd thing, and we should build a sewage treatment plant. i am one among few who don't care, and say that its a waste of money.

 

[Knowze Gungk]

Littering creates jobs!

Or gives juvies something to do while thet think about what they've done.

 

[CenturionV]

Pollution is serious, but due to future technology, will probably hit a peak in the next 50 years (maybe we will get some nice warm winters, and some hot summers here in alberta w00t ) and then start to decline, as technology developes it inevitably becomes cheaper, cleaner, and more efficient.

Overall I'm not worried, and I generally don't "do my part" it seems foolish, the problem will probably be gone or greatly reduced by my childrens time, and nothing I do would help to get it any better faster.

Of course we should do what we can to take care of what God has made us kings over, but never at the expense of major technological/industrial progress and/or human growth, for instance stopping human growth becuase some animal varients might die out (like tiger/polar bears/insert-endangered-varient species) makes no sence in the long run.

Qf course of all the "conservationist" groups out there THESE guys have to be the worst http://www.vhemt.org/

Its almost the exact opposite of what we need to do to increase our quality of life, and in the long run keep our biosphere healthy, and controlled.

In the end of course we are the big show when it comes to earth, the rest of the stuff is are just our subjects, its OUR earth, given by God to use and care for.

 

[Plexus]

Of course of all the "conservationist" groups out there THESE guys have to be the worst http://www.vhemt.org/

I still think they're a joke... please be a joke.

 

[BasketCase]

Hopefully they'll start with themselves, leaving the rest of us to go extinct WHEN WE DAMN WELL FEEL LIKE IT, thank you very much, now get outta my way, you're blocking the TV.