The_Unforgiven
KoEkWaUs
Is there in real life (yet)? I like the pollution idea, as long as it does not become overwhelming.
Pollution
- Thread starter JuntaJoe
- Start date
Is there in real life (yet)? I like the pollution idea, as long as it does not become overwhelming.
The_Unforgiven
KoEkWaUs
I've never really liked governors. Don't know why. I loose one level of control, I think... As a micromanager I don't like it. I'll try it though
widdowmaker
Maker of Widdows
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2003
- Messages
- 441
YAY! WE ARE RE-ENACTING LIFE!!!Does this mean i can go steal that nuke from NORAD and drop it on the stinking greeks!!?!?! NO!!! Damnation.....
The_Unforgiven
KoEkWaUs
Yes, but as far as I've noticed MOST people want a realistic strategy game, for example: more diplomatic options, commercials units and stuff like that. If you eliminate polution, you might as well eliminate the sinking of early ships, etc, etc. It is an essential part of the GAME you are referring to. The idea of this GAME is to be realistic, otherwise the civilopedia wouldn't have to be so extensive, etc, etc, etc
aeldrik
from CIV1 to infinity
Pollution in itself is a good concept in the game, it shoudl be kept... but what I don't understand is, even if there is a cure for Cancer, why isn't there a way to remove polution 100% once you have reached the technological level??????
supaguruzebidy
Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill!
Yeah pollution needs to stay but it would be good to see a civ that tries to be "green" get rewarded for it!ie a "green" civ could have a higher happiness and better levels of population growth! Maybe even income generated from eco-tourism!!!
The_Unforgiven
KoEkWaUs
I don't think we will ever reach that level of technology... Even fusion power (which is the cleanest form) has radioactive waste for example. Biomass isn't nearly as green as people think. ETc, etc, and this will alwatys be the case. You're right in the cancer case though...
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
of course Pollution should still be a factor, but the way it is done it is just tedious. In Civ2 I liked to milk games, in Civ3 I usually quit in the industrial if my win is assured - sad
aeldrik
from CIV1 to infinity
I don't know... please don't shoot me for saying this, but I think the pollution system in CIV2 or even in CCTP was better...
I agree we are never gonna be able to reduce pollution 100%, but with technology, the waste lands because of pollution should not exist anymore... Hell, where in Western Europe do you have land so wasted by polution that it can't be used??????
I agree we are never gonna be able to reduce pollution 100%, but with technology, the waste lands because of pollution should not exist anymore... Hell, where in Western Europe do you have land so wasted by polution that it can't be used??????
genghis_khev
Surviving Monarch Level
Nowhere, at the moment, but think what happens when there is an oil tanker wreck and oil spill. An entire costal region looses fishing in an area, possibly tourism as well. Thankfully in the real world some people take pollution as seriopusly as we do. Unfortunately some don't though!
_SIGH_
Sorry I was going all preachy there.
:suicide:
Thats better.
_SIGH_
Sorry I was going all preachy there.
:suicide:
Thats better.
The pollution model for Civ2 was fine.
You could eventually remove all possible causes of pollution through terraforming and buildings.
That made managing cities a challenge.
The current model requires you either stifle a city's growth or live with some level of pollution. So megacities are off the table if you hate pollution.
Old Civ players relied on megacities to generate war units rapidly and race to finish wonders. With the current removal of caravan units to rush wonders, the player is left with few choices to get wonders built ahead of the competition. Generally, you are left with the randomness of who started the wonder first in their size 12 city. Relying on luck should simply never be a Civ player's strategy.
Removal of megacities also cuts deeply into your scoring and culture growth as smaller cities simply can't build culture generators fast enough to snatch land in later parts of the game.
Simply put, it forces too much "equallness" into the game. The purpose behind Civ strategy is to find an advantage.
As I've said before, the game should have an option to remove that element from the game at the outset or have a strategy method to eliminate it in the game.....other than stunting city growth.
The pollution model sucks in this game and it was never entertaining in any of the other Civ games. I've been wasting time for a decade sending peons out to keep up the mess that I didn't wish to be bothered with in the first place. You can be sure that this issue encourages me to select other games off my shelf when I want to play a game instead of Civ3. That's something Firaxis should take note of.
You could eventually remove all possible causes of pollution through terraforming and buildings.
That made managing cities a challenge.
The current model requires you either stifle a city's growth or live with some level of pollution. So megacities are off the table if you hate pollution.
Old Civ players relied on megacities to generate war units rapidly and race to finish wonders. With the current removal of caravan units to rush wonders, the player is left with few choices to get wonders built ahead of the competition. Generally, you are left with the randomness of who started the wonder first in their size 12 city. Relying on luck should simply never be a Civ player's strategy.
Removal of megacities also cuts deeply into your scoring and culture growth as smaller cities simply can't build culture generators fast enough to snatch land in later parts of the game.
Simply put, it forces too much "equallness" into the game. The purpose behind Civ strategy is to find an advantage.
As I've said before, the game should have an option to remove that element from the game at the outset or have a strategy method to eliminate it in the game.....other than stunting city growth.
The pollution model sucks in this game and it was never entertaining in any of the other Civ games. I've been wasting time for a decade sending peons out to keep up the mess that I didn't wish to be bothered with in the first place. You can be sure that this issue encourages me to select other games off my shelf when I want to play a game instead of Civ3. That's something Firaxis should take note of.
Hey what if pollution instead of just covering a terrain tile, it affects pop growth and food production? So for example, a tile that is under constant pollution effects starts to render less and less food until the situation is fixed. And regarding pop growth, since I think it should be independent form food surplus (like in MoO2) a high pollution in an area means a penalty to pop growth, wich can be remedied either by health care or by green city imps.
wh00ps
Chieftain
Automated pollution cleanup seems to work fairly well for me so far... Of course, I have yet to make it to the era of massive pollution with a non-industrious civ... Perhaps I'm in for a shock. 
:mutant:
:mutant:
genghis_khev
Surviving Monarch Level
How about pollution affecting happyness? After all who wants to live in a highly poluted industrial hellhole!?! Each pollution within a cities' radius causes 1 happy peep to content peep or content to unhappy?
aeldrik
from CIV1 to infinity
Automatic pollution cleaning works fine with one problem, once there is no pollution left, all the workers are "freed" and need to be reassigned to a task.... great, I can just leave them under my control all the same...
The Idea with the unhappiness is good, probably even quite realistic as a side effect...
ok, true about the oilspills, but these are exceptions, that can be avoided (new ships are much safer)... I mean, look at a city of 5 Million in the turn of the 19th Century like Paris or London, following civ, it would be producing one tile with polution every turn since it has no recycling center...
Mass transportation should be available much sooner, in history the first tubes came at the end of the 19th century...
The Idea with the unhappiness is good, probably even quite realistic as a side effect...
ok, true about the oilspills, but these are exceptions, that can be avoided (new ships are much safer)... I mean, look at a city of 5 Million in the turn of the 19th Century like Paris or London, following civ, it would be producing one tile with polution every turn since it has no recycling center...
Mass transportation should be available much sooner, in history the first tubes came at the end of the 19th century...
genghis_khev
Surviving Monarch Level
Earlier polution managing buildings / techs are a Good idea.
Just actually thinking about this, in the real world when did the industrial era start - beginning of the 1800s? Admittedly it did not kick off fully to 1900s and recycling has been with us initially in 1950s and acepted ny the main population by 1980's. So as a worst case scenario a modern city may have been struggling with pollution for 150 years before there are any effective ways of managing it? I'm working off memory here (its a while since I was in school) so while my figures may not be exact you can see whee I'm going with this. The game is actually (yet again) rather realistic!
Pollution in the game still sucks though!!
Just actually thinking about this, in the real world when did the industrial era start - beginning of the 1800s? Admittedly it did not kick off fully to 1900s and recycling has been with us initially in 1950s and acepted ny the main population by 1980's. So as a worst case scenario a modern city may have been struggling with pollution for 150 years before there are any effective ways of managing it? I'm working off memory here (its a while since I was in school) so while my figures may not be exact you can see whee I'm going with this. The game is actually (yet again) rather realistic!
Pollution in the game still sucks though!!
aeldrik
from CIV1 to infinity
not really, as said, Mass Transportation were available from 1850 on.... in the Game??
Cities like London in 1900 had no real problem with the countryside beeing polluted, in the game it would be one huge mess.....
Cities like London in 1900 had no real problem with the countryside beeing polluted, in the game it would be one huge mess.....
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
plz stop the reality comparisons - otherwise I go by train to your house and will be there on the instant 
playing my huge map further I found that Shift+P workers and governors at least make the game playable, otherwise I'd have to quit
playing my huge map further I found that Shift+P workers and governors at least make the game playable, otherwise I'd have to quit
aeldrik
from CIV1 to infinity
CIV is a reality simulation, it is a game based on REALITY, what else would you compare it to to see if it works right, if not with reality?
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