posters leaving....

[Darkness]

Originally posted by SunTzu
The moderators are doing a great job, it is the posters who screw things up

Yes, that's true! But Killer is not one of those posters! He's one of the most helpfull people on these forums (at least for those of us who still play civ3).

And the war is indeed the reason why people are a bit stressed out in OT right now...

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Immortal
Just out of curiosity nap, what situation do you think needs to be looked at?

I think I know what everyone is getting at here, if so, quite frankly you people are wrong.

I'll be more specific.

The way I see it, both said posters are pissed off by moderators. I'm NOT saying moderators do so on purpose, just that said posters feel so!

They feel they cannot post their opinions in a fair and normal way. They only have this feeling with Iraq war related topics. This cannot be a coincedence (as anyone will agree with?).

Even I, as a strong pro war guy, think the way reasonable anti-war posts are handled, is overdone. I know it is not my responsibility to keep the OT fine and I do agree OT needs 'special care' by moderators. In general this is all done perfetcly. But with anti-war posters leaving, there will be no one left to discuss with. That would be a shame.

So there are IMHO three possibilities:
1. We keep it as it is.
2. We encourage reasonable antiwar arguments and reasonable anti US-government arguments.
3. We stop discussing Iraq war issues at all.

I realize there are many threads in SF about 'this or that' should change. I also am aware there is no point in seroiusly considering all well-meant change options.
But I do think recent departures of two of the most respected posters is slightly different then just a poster leaving.

I am quite new on this forum (january2003), but it really got me!
That is why I hope things will be reconsidered!

Cheers,
Stapel

 

[D' Artagnan]

Things will go better once this stupid war ends. But you can't just say : CFC sucks because there are a lot of newcomers, or because a few posters are leaving due to boredom.


PS : curtsibbling is in apolyton if you deseperatelly "need" him

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan
But you can't just say : CFC sucks because there are a lot of newcomers, or because a few posters are leaving due to boredom.

Why do you say that????? Noone ever said anything remotely like that.

This is EXACTLY the kind of sidetracking discussions that makes OT so tedious lately.

I know all Americans are trained in this, it is called 'speech' in school. And I remeber with a laugh the one time I tried to explain to an American how to write a 'discussion'; he was aboslutels shocked to hear that in Europe you name and debate pros and cons before hanging your hat on one option instead of picking a side, tehn fereociously naming only the pros for that, nothing else......

 

[Tassadar]

Killer have done such a great work in GD, that he should deserve an Oscar. He did that as a benevolent, he bring so much help to newbies and even veteran like me.

I hope he just take a little brake and come back.

I myselfe got ban a few time, mainly for overreacting against warmonger and US foreigh policy. But i know better now who i should avoid to answer, i dont care anymore about them.

So, we have to sort it out, choose whom we disuss with, i had very interesting discussion with Enzenky and damncommie latly and i enjoy it. Dont let the poeple who piss you off win, ignore them.

 

[D' Artagnan]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.


Why do you say that????? Noone ever said anything remotely like that.

Well, some people tend to say that CFC wasn't as good as before, all the great posters are gone, there are newbies all over the place, etc.
At least, this is how I fell it, and I wasn't aiming smne in particular.


I myself got banned twice for overreacting in certain "hot" topics ( Us Presidency and foreign policy to name a few).
Now, I have stopped posting in these kind of threads.

 

[SirJethro]

@Killer....whether you stay or go man, you've personally had an impact on thousands of Civer's....literally around the globe. Way to go. You'll be missed......but if posting here is causing frustration, you are doing the right thing. RL and your own state of mind are more important.

Good luck!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan



Well, some people tend to say that CFC wasn't as good as before, all the great posters are gone, there are newbies all over the place, etc.
At least, this is how I fell it, and I wasn't aiming smne in particular.

OK, got you this time....

I especially would like to highlight this:

Now, I have stopped posting in these kind of threads.

noone of the Bush supporters has ever said this here to my knowledge. But a lot of Bush opposers. Raijer left all the way rather suddenly, for example, PMing me exactly that reason and saying goodbye.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

From my point of view, Lefty and I HAVE NOT CHANGED from what we have always done, others came in AND TRIED TO CHANGE US.

UNACCEPTABLE.

If people chose to leave, that is their choice, and hardly warrents these threads, which to me are so much nonsense.

In case it escaped the notice of some, I myself have ceased posting for the most part, becuase I don't care the garbage that was brought to CFC, and my areas in particular, in the last few months. I for the most part only do my job, and rarely take part in somthing I once loved, so don't try telling me what needs to be changed, as far as I'm concerned, quite a few killed something that once was very cool.

As for Curt, I like the guy, but Lefty was dead right to act vs him, he ceased posting and had taken to being a wise guy.

As for others, they can come as go as they chose.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Well, AoA, maybe you and Lefty did something wrong, or maybe the source of irritation never showed before now?
Not saying it necessarily is so; I think most people changed with Sept. 11 and with the Bush controversy, at least most US citizens. But maybe you always did things in an irritating manner, but there were few instances where it would show?

Banning flamers and spammers will not show if you are over sensitive to something, but if that something suddenly perks up all the time, then it will show....

You know that we both disagree a lot, and that I respect you for the way you treat spammers, flamers and 'nice' posters. And it is not you (alone), but the entire 'climate' in the US-dominated OT forum I am talking about. TF, Lefty and you could have stepped in - noone did.


Why is it unacceptable to try to change you? It might be for the better? As long as it is done in the form of a reasonable discussion - isn't that what live is all about? Society? You changed me, in some ways, you and others here, why shouldn't things work out the other way round?

And, I do miss your opinions, as long as you post them in the 'AoA's opinion and reasons' format you always use unless you get 'heated up'. I'd like to read more of what you think and why, as long as you do not spout stereotypes. If you try to analyse how others think, and why, and respond to that smartly - wonderfull! Sadly, a lot of posters lately have taken to other means, including ridiculing other posters because of language deficiencies instead of responding to the content of their posts. You do not to this (anymore - personal opinion), and that is great, but don't you see that this kind of behaviour kills debates? It is frusttrating if you try to take part in a discussion and get 'wiped away' and ridiculed.

Even more annoying are the stereotypical 'us vs the rest of the world; you are a bad guy' attacks. It reminds me a lot of the black and white Nazi rethorics - a great way to silence sensible critizism and different, but valid opinions. This is what makes me annoyed about OT, and I agree there is little one can do about these posters.


And please do not hold Curts frustration on that matter against him. Many would have blown up a lot earlier.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I didn't say for you to leave Lt, nor Curt either.

As for content, we have always stirven for a fair forum, that requires a very heavy level of moderation, a level I'm not prepared to give at this time, due to all the complaining.

If someone sees something they dislike, simply "report post".

If you want my opinion on topics, I'm sorry, it won't be found here.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

AoA: never said you said you wanted me to leave. THouhg, a while ago, i did decidedly get that feeling, also from your PMs. But we have cleared that matter up back then

as for fair: it isn't. cannot be. to difficult. You'd need a mod in each and every thread all the time.

I do NOT want your opinions on tpics here, I DO want it in OT - pity you will not state it!


'report post' is for heavy cases. It is the overall tone, and that is difficult to moderate. A 'general announcment' might help though.

To be honest, I wouldn't know what to do about OT atm. That is why I am gone for a while.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Immortal
curt and killer were vets to the board.

Everybody that joined after Oct 2000 is a Newbie to me.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola

Everybody that joined after Oct 2000 is a Newbie to me.

exaclty the kind of flippant remark we need to brighten our days

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Why is it unacceptable to try to change you? It might be for the better?

Not all the 25,000+ poster here put together are significant enough to change ME in the least.
But that is irrelevant to the issue at hand, moderation. I have no agenda or crusade here. I have no personal taste in censoring spam. trolls, or flames; I am a spamer, a troll, and flamer at sites where it is permitted. I set no policy here (and often have to beg for policy guidance from administration). I just do what Thunderfall wants me to do, or in absense of express information about that, what I think he wants me to do. If you are grumbling about a large amount of action regarding trolls about about certain subjects, it is because they are they are the subjects that get a grossly disproportionate amount of trolling. The targets du jour change from time to time. They were Clinton and Israel when I started here.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Lefty, you misunderstood me here. I should have put that clearer:

noone came here to force AoA to ba someone else. Some people may ask him to change his opinions, rethink his positions - well, if that is not OK, then what is this place for? I can write what I think all over my bedroom walls, too........ It is the giving AND TAKING of ideas and touhgts, and that includes every reader he, whether he likes it or not. If someone wants this removed he would be better off making his own persopnal website, IntoleranceFanatics.

Whether you DO accept others opinions and change yours is your thing alone (and I fear AoA feels pressed here, that really shouldn't happen, noone should force or try to force others to change their views).

That is called freedom, and one that shouldn't be removed on CFC if I understand TF right!

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I think it's time to stop this tomfoolery.

It's getting REALLY old.

 

[Sanscizo]

I am taking AoA's side in this debate.

This is certainly at least partly nostalgia, you say things used to be so much greater but you must realise that things change and then they change back again.

Things will change for the better eventually and then you won't be complaining, if you dislike the forums at the moment then you will have to just grin and bear it sorry.

There is plenty of room to post what you like around here as long as it's not stupid or offensive, and why should you want to post stupid or offensive stuff.

There is no point in changing the forums just because a couple of posters with a high post-count have left, is it not possible that they are just bored because they've posted so damn much. The two in question may say that they are annoyed by the modding style, and they may be, but I think if they hadn't been around for so long and posted so much then they probably would stay around anyway. You may disagree but I think this thread is a lot about nostalgia, there is no need for mod bashing.

 

[Ville]

Originally posted by Strider


Correction... There is another poster with 7000 posts.... Or he might even have 8000.... (opps... I was wrong... Shaitan has 9259 posts)

Anyway... I think the way this forum is moderated is fine... If they have problems with it then let them leave.

It shows to me that Shaitan has only 5813 posts:

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by Sanscizo
There is no point in changing the forums just because a couple of posters with a high post-count have left, is it not possible that they are just bored because they've posted so damn much. The two in question may say that they are annoyed by the modding style, and they may be, but I think if they hadn't been around for so long and posted so much then they probably would stay around anyway. You may disagree but I think this thread is a lot about nostalgia, there is no need for mod bashing.

Erm, what is this little bit of pschycology based on? Have you read a few thousand posts from these people being discussed? If not I'd hazard a guess that you are making it up as you go along...

And how come someone with 14 posts has 12 of them in site feedback?