Pre-Poll talk: SoZ-Immortal plan

[Emp.Napoleon]

Some of us (DZ and I) think that we should tell C3B about our SoZ plans. Once we do that we could propose that we use our AC and their immortals to attack other nations. If we can eliminate two of them we advance to the finals with a really good friend. With our AC and their Immotals once we get mapmaking we will be unstopable. I think that they will be willing to help us more if we do not wait for us to build it. Also we will not have to keep the secret and we will foster a good relationship. To have a ally in the finals will be great, and we just might win it. I don't see how this will hurt. I am sure C3B will help us for their sake.

 

[Hygro]

I think they'd rather destroy us and take the SoZ for themselves!

 

[akots]

Can we arrange for a secret chat with the newly elected C3B officials and our newly elected officials to confidentially discuss these issues with an obligatory non-disclosure to the citizens of both teams? This chat would serve the only purpose: to prepare for a disclosure of the idea. In poorly prepared, the disclosure may result in some civil unrest here and in C3B.

The problem with them wanting to get SoZ is that it would take some time and may be not possible at all. So, even if they get it, most benefit of it would be already gone.

 

[Ankka]

I think we should be at least halfway done and our relationship with C3B excellent before exposing this plan. Otherwise they'll have a good reason to attack us and have both Immo's AND AC's...

 

[Matrix]

Bad idea!

They would send immortals before we have a decent stack of ancient cavalries. It's keep it a secret. Besides, we don't even know where the others are! Perhaps it's undoable to attack the others and we're stuck with C3B on our own continent. In that case there is a big chance we have to fight them.

I just don't think it's a good idea to start such a close and trustful friendship while we don't even know any others.

If there are others within reach so that we can indeed attack them together, we'll tell them by then. Or...if we see C3B coming with a stack of immortals we could say "Hey, we've got SoZ, wouldn't it be better to attack someone else instead of each other?"

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Right now Bremp will be next president. Akots plan is ok but they still might tell their citizens. We could try it.

I think that doing this would make good fealings with C3B and we probaly will be able to get in a agreement. If we do akot's thing we should do it soon, since all of the C3B officals have been elected. Just as long as it is after next turn, since next turn they will see our warrior and that will get their citizens to have more trust in us.

 

[Matrix]

Why would they keep it a secret?
Or why we for that matter. There's no check.
We might as well say "Let's not attack ever" and leave it with that. Again: there's no check.

 

[deshelbr]

I don't think that akots is saying that the leaders make a decision without conferring with their team (probably unconstitutional). He is saying that the leaders have a closed door chat about it where the chat logs don't have to be published to the citizenry. After out last little debacle, I think this might benefit everyone.

 

[gert-janl]

I sincerely hope that our ambassador, and our future ambassador (seems to be the same person) will create a poll where we can select if we want to give away this huge informational advantage.

I am very interested in establishing good relations with C3B, and I do want to make lots of concessions to keep our relation strong, but this plan goes far beyond the term 'concession'. There is no need to tell them we're building the SoZ at the moment. As Emp. Napo said, our relations will already improve because of the fact that they will see our northern explorer again. Why giving away our SoZ intentions? If I was C3B, I would take that as a warning to prepare a huge Immortal army. Furthermore, we can't be that close with teams this early in the game. I completely agree with Matrix to explore some more, and find other teams. We can't rely on them already!

Of course this doesn't mean that C3B will notice any difference in our attitude towards them: we have to stay close friends: it's just that we can't sign a life-long alliance, by telling them our Wonder intentions, in this stage of the game.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I would not give away this information, at least not at the moment. There is only 1 point in time I'd consider revealing it; a couple of turns before it finishes. And then only if they haven't shown hostile intentions.
Reason for not telling: they don't need to know, and it can hugely backfire.
Reasons for telling at some moment in time: If they come at us with SoD of Immortals we can hopefully change their mind and joining with us into an alliance. - When it's nearly finished propose an alliance Vs other nations. - We are under threat by a 3rd nation and need their help.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I sincerely hope that our ambassador, and our future ambassador (seems to be the same person) will create a poll where we can select if we want to give away this huge informational advantage.

I will but if I were to post a poll now people would not have a chance to discuss it. Maybe tommarow I will.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

Matrix has the best plan, to me as a casual observer. They will attack us before we can even build the SoZ. Keep it covert.

 

[Zarn]

We should tell them about SoZ, if we want to lose.
I thought we were trying to win. Silly me.

 

[akots]

At least Bremp must be informed. That is the only way to keep the peace and avoid Immortal invasion. Why, you may ask? The reason why is the same reason why it can be useful to arrange for a secret chat and it cannot be disclosed at present by some obvious reason. The reason itself is poorly supported and there is not enough direct evidence to suspect anyone doing anything wrong.

Edited. What Matrix is saying is absolute bs from a point of an experienced played like Bremp and would never work. No offence, please. However, fortunately, there are other much stronger and better arguments.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

How true. Why put the nail in our coffins? No, rather we must wait until they can't attack us to tell them. That's like telling the school bully you have 5 bucks on you and ask him if he wants to split the cost of lunch. He'll just steal your 5 dollars. No, you have to wait until you have your "friends" (or in this case the Ancient Cavalry) with you. Yes, the bully may still "steal" the money, but at least you can put up a fight and maybe win after you are backed up...

Did that make any sense? And was it in accordance to what's going on? If I'm wrong, please criticise me.

 

[Zarn]

How true. Why put the nail in our coffins? No, rather we must wait until they can't attack us to tell them. That's like telling the school bully you have 5 bucks on you and ask him if he wants to split the cost of lunch. He'll just steal your 5 dollars. No, you have to wait until you have your "friends" (or in this case the Ancient Cavalry) with you. Yes, the bully may still "steal" the money, but at least you can put up a fight and maybe win after you are backed up...

Did that make any sense? And was it in accordance to what's going on? If I'm wrong, please criticise me.

How about Sidious revels the plans for the Death Star to Obi-Wan in Episode II? That way the Jedi have time to make sure it isn't created. Wait, this would only work with Star Wars fans.

Only telling Bremp is not good, either. He will tell his team, as it is his team. He isn't a Fanatican. These people aren't Fanaticans.

 

[Ankka]

No way, ,let's not tell this to them, at least not before it's almost ready or we have some good reason and it's our last hope of surviving.

 

[Matrix]

Akots, could you please be clearer? I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

We should tell them about SoZ, if we want to lose.
I thought we were trying to win. Silly me.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

We wouldn'treally be dishonest with them either; just sort of ommitting what is going on. And Zarn I thought of another analogy.

What if N. Korea, if they are making nukes, told the US about their program. They'd be saluting the flag before they could even give one man a gun to fight the US... well you get the picture.

 

[akots]

Akots, could you please be clearer? I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

I can pm you if you promise to keep it secret and never tell anyone.