[BTS] Prepare to DIE! #2

[krikav]

Spoiler T154 Spy Hard :

When I started again from T70, I hurried to get a gift settler out, but I came 2 turns late, gifted the city, got pleased and begged for half of fishing. But 10 turns later, he came at me with catapults and a horde of prets... So I just died. :'(
There was a 2 turn gap between the peace treaty weared off and when I got my settler into position. Kind of unlucky.
So I reloaded from around when I got the first GGeneral and extended the first war abit (there was no point making peace when I did first time around really).


Julius created Justinian when I had about 3000 espionage points on him.
That gives me 3000 points on Justinian for free, kind of crazy.

Julius got 4 cities fora +6 liberation bonus... which still wasn't enough.
When border tension dissappeared later on (I don't do much culture) it went up to Friendly though, but a beg almost closed the possible plotting gap.

Money for nothing, and the tech for free!

T141 I got the third GSpy, first was settled, second built oxford... Was planning on infiltration with the third, but since I got double EP through justinian I still had a ton of EP on Julius, so I just settled the third instead.
Hamburg is working on a Engineer to do something fun with.

T148 The city I gifted to Justinian flipped, or was gifted to Julius and I could steal from him instead.

Up at T154 now... the other AIs are looking scary.
Julius is plotting, likely on Lincoln which is his worst enemy.

 

[konata_LS]

@krikav

Spoiler :

So the colonies created by the AI keep all the that you spent on the master. I didn't know that. Glad I've learnt something new today
Semi-iso with JC is tough . I always have bad luck with JC. AI JC DoW me more frequently than Genghis does .
I don't think Freddy is a weak leader, but in this particular situation, probably Sitting Bull would be better than Freddy? as Praets just die to Dog soldiers and CG3 archers .

The other continents looks troublesome. 3 of them already got Astro

@soundjata

Spoiler :

4 cities Engineering attack against 16 cities JC looks scary . But JC's land is really nice if you manage to capture it.

@Fish Man

Spoiler :

Nice outside of the box game play Yes, it's with map knowledge, but sometimes map knowledge + a little good luck can make huge differences.

 

[soundjata]

@konata_LS I don't think my game is winnable

Spoiler :

I'm happy to have 1 turned Notre Dame but it won't help vs this big of a JC

 

[krikav]

Im not at all sure my game is either...

 

[Gwaja]

@krikav

Spoiler :

That plotting chart is really helpful. Thank you for that! I vote it to be stickied somewhere.

Now, it is my experience that even that 90% at "Pleased" becomes somewhat questionable and not entirely safe especially if the warmonger in question has nobody to consider plotting war against BUT YOU, for being semi isolated. I wasn't surprised at JC declaration on you given the circumstances. At least you were able to correct the situation in your favor, so that's good. And great work with spying too, as well as that extra juicy spy points to use against Justinian. That gifted city directly west of your capital... a real nice one!

I am concerned that there is still the possibility of another JC declaration on you for you being close to him. Screw worst enemies, because in my view, AI almost always favor closer targets. I hope to god it doesn't play out that way. He is already a monster, with a vassal, no less. And yeah, JC isn't the only threat in this game, as you have already observed. And worse may yet to come.

I am curious how you will approach the game from here. You put up a lot of effort to try to make JC happy. Will you now change your stance and look to wage offensive war against him to expand on your island continent? Will it be peaceful teching to try to catch up in tech? Ouch on other continents AI already having Astronomy....

@soundjata

Spoiler :

I share the same opinion as you in that earlier the JC is dealt with, the better. You have made a lot of effort to go out of your way, maybe even at the expense of your own expansion. to please him, and in that process, he may have gotten way too big in comparison to you, to wage war at this stage in the game. And he is only the beginning of your problem.

I love Notre Dame, and it is great to be able to 1-turn that thing, but I almost never end up being able to build that thing.

I know @Gwaja was going to try to kill us...so I was determined to turn the tables around.

I love all you fellow CivFanatics. I have no reason to try to kill any of you. ^_^ DId I really develop such a notorious reputation in this forum?

@Fish Man

Your tactics reminded me of ... **cough** certain someone named... **cough** @Fippy ""cough"" ""cough**....

Spoiler :

Nevertheless.... BRILLIANT!! How much you could achieve with warriors!!

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

Early wonder spamming is surely tempting. I think it is still a gamble though, and the presence of stone and marble in the BFC may just well be a form of trickery to cloud our better judgment. What I am really interested from players is.... where they decide, ultimately, to settle.

As for the "Prepare to DIE" part... like I said... it is nowhere near close to anywhere like the first game. ^_^

 

[Fippy]

I used map knowledge in those crazy maps with raging barbs etc yup, of course
But i keep reloads at a minimum for a very long time now (nothing wrong with Fishman having fun there), manipulating combat odds isn't part of strategy for me personally.

 

[Gwaja]

I used map knowledge in those crazy maps with raging barbs etc yup, of course
But i keep reloads at a minimum for a very long time now (nothing wrong with Fishman having fun there), manipulating combat odds isn't part of strategy for me personally.

So..... you DO admit to wandering around your settler and wreaking havoc on innocent AI! Now who is more evil? ^_^

 

[Fippy]

Absolutely as Lymond would say
And you are not evil, keep the fun going and stay around

 

[Fish Man]

It's not over yet! Victory was less assured than I thought, and so the thrilling saga continues - to t199 (1390AD).

Spoiler :

I started to trade around optics (and metal casting, to the very-behind Pacal) before meeting the continent with the AIs-who-have-too-much-land. That way, getting the cheap stuff like alphabet, monarchy, CoL, aesthetics, and feudalism wouldn't count towards WFYBTA for AIs who I haven't made contact with yet. I also got a cheap civil service from Gandhi, ruining my chem bulb (in my defense, I really wanted buro and especially irrigation).

After meeting everyone, I got a few more sweet trades in. Gandhi won lib, obviously, and I gave him astro for engineering + philosophy when I thought he was closing in so that he wouldn't lib astro and just ruin my trades. Instead of astro, then, the idiot got...divine right??? Peaceful AIs tend to do that, I don't know why...and he wasn't even the first to the tech, if I remembered correctly! Besides Gandhi, Mansa gave me nationalism for astro, and I got printing press for nationalism from Gandhi.

Spoiler :

During the Renaissance, I was almost tech leader for a long while, but soon came to realize that there was a massive problem, likely intended by the creator of the map...a runaway India with 20+ cities. Gandhi pulled more and more ahead, blazing through the Renaissance era in short order and being first to the usual early industrial stuff that gives freebies (physics, communism). I decided I had to follow the philosophy of "take on the strongest AI in isolation, and the game is yours if you win that single war" - because the longer I ignored him, the more dangerous he got, and if he wasn't going to space, he was probably going to win culture by t250 or something crazy.

My idea was to get to steel and rifling and take him out before he got too dangerous by striking at his core, relying on the fact that he usually beelined culture techs like electricity or radio before ever touching rifling. However, my plan was disrupted when people got gunpowder and replaceable parts and started trading them around. Meanwhile, even without rifling her se, Gandhi was getting close to extremely dangerous stuff like assembly line and combustion. The distance was the real killer here...the cities best for whipping galleons were inconveniently placed, and necessitated launching an attack from the left of my empire, which meant ships took 7+ turns to reach his borders, even with circumnavigation bonus. By the time I got there, he had rifles and cavs, and I knew my collection of poorly-promoted cannons suddenly wouldn't be enough to take much, especially when soon up against machine guns and with reinforcements blocked by destroyers.

So...I reloaded, and instead of going communism like most games that drag on for this long, I devised a daring new strategy, something I've never done before - the artillery rush.

I bit the bullet and gave out steel for scientific method, and then steel + RP for physics. Hatty was getting rifling anyways (I learned that the hard way when I reloaded after a few AIs suddenly got it in a handful of turns), so I wouldn't have been able to hold on to that tech monopoly long regardless. Afterwards, I self-teched artillery, and meanwhile sailed off with a fleet of about 30 units, with a few stragglers that hopefully wouldn't die to destroyers. There was no time to wait for me to actually get artillery on the invading fleet, as Gandhi was 3-turning the entire industrial era in rapid succession.

Spoiler :

The plan was simple. I would take a few coastal cities with rifles + cannons (hopefully before he got rifles of his own, or worse, infantry), and then upgrade to artillery to push on. Taking out Gandhi's east coast will also hopefully reduce the amount of destroyers he can throw at me, and perhaps even kill some ships in port, increasing the likelihood that reinforcements can arrive safely. I realized that artillery specifically was the best solution I had to all the worries about this invasion. Facing machine guns or enemy cannons? They all count as siege units, so get destroyed even harder than rifles and cavs (artillery gets +50% vs siege; it's pretty neat). Worried about grenadier counterattacks? Cannons may die easily, but artilleries easily overpower a 12-strength unit, and can even stand up to cavs (and also can't be flanked by them). Because less artillery will die attacking, having a significantly higher base strength, I also solve the problem of all my cannons probably dying and me getting stranded in the middle of the war with no way to push on or reinforce, if I faced enough rifles and cavs. Worst-case scenario, even if he gets infantry or even tanks, artillery will have decent or even winning odds against them, especially when paired with airships. Meanwhile, because arties are a resourceless unit, they can be upgraded anywhere so long as it's your territory. I would upgrade my cannons as they go, and pray for the best.

Spoiler :

Another pivotal choice I made was bringing my woodsman III axe along for the ride, which acted as a superior medic (healing an extra 5% on the same time) - and when I attached a GG to him later, I got a free rifle with medic 1 as well, already bringing him up to par with a standard supermedic.

Despite trading for rifling midway into the war, I caught Gandhi at the critical moment when he didn't yet upgrade all his units. It also helped that I declared and bribed Mansa on him with MT + rifling a few turns before I actually landed, to maybe confuse him a bit and siphon away his stack onto attacking Mali. The coastal cities were garrisoned with medieval crap that I handily took care of, and I let him reinforce a bit before taking them. Miraculously enough, his entire stack was pretty much just 12 units (I knew this by sending an explorer to constantly spy on his lands and keep tabs on his troops, that I deleted at the beginning of the war), and though he built some cavs to try to defend his capital, when I blasted them away with artillery and took the city, it broke him. He got infantry in the middle of the war, but two weren't enough to save Delhi, and afterwards, every city was filled with just one or two infantry, a machine gun or something else useless, and outdated pikes and crossbows he didn't upgrade. Funny enough, in the final city I took, I faced a tank (so he just got industrialism), which my CR2 artillery even got winning odds facing...none of this would've been possible with only cannons. I lost just 1-2 artillery the entire war, because airships softened up cities enough to where I got 60% win chance even against the toughest defenders. Against all odds, my artillery rush with what ended up being a pretty pathetically-sized army actually worked, because Gandhi did his Gandhi thing and refused to ever build units (or upgrade them, for that matter).

Spoiler :

This is the final combined army size and conquered lands at the end of the war (I attacked both north and south of his empire at the same time, cutting apart the scant defenders, sometimes literally with a CRIII axe I wanted to upgrade but never got the change to). With about 40 units, that's certainly not a lot and would have completely died to any industrial-era AI besides Mr. "We never ever build units and work on Broadway while at war with 3 people".

Spoiler :

After sweeping the guy from coast to coast, I capped him, and with 28 cities and at the top of the scoreboard, I am finally free to do as I see fit. I think I'll finish Mansa and/or Pacal, and then make this world pay with nuclear fire for what headache it has caused me (literally, a headache, from staying up to play too long). You thought this was a civ game? It's about to turn into Fallout 4 .

Spoiler :

 

[Fish Man]

Oh, and save up to t199, posted separately since I'm already over the attachment limit.

 

[Fish Man]

So..... you DO admit to wandering around your settler and wreaking havoc on innocent AI! Now who is more evil? ^_^

No worries, I appreciate evilness and a little trolling if it's all in good fun

 

[Fish Man]

@Henrik75 I saw your latest teaser video, and I must say - great minds think alike

Spoiler :

 

[Gwaja]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

I guess you moved your scout east to reveal that gold which is absolutely hard to resist in not settling on the marble at that point. But I'd have to agree that stone is more beneficial for the early game wonders, and despite priests not being appreciated much, I think settled priests can be extremely overpowered.

Archery before Bronze Working or Animal Husbandry... ^_^ Without foreknowledge of map, perhaps the safest way to go, considering Fred starts with Hunting.

@Fish Man

Spoiler :

Once JC is out of the way in one way or another, the other continent AI are indeed problematic, but it is a saving grace that it happens to be Gandhi that has that much land. And good land at that too. Had it been someone that loves to build units in decent numbers (We don't even have to consider unit spammers like Mehmed), it would have been much harder. Considering how Mansa got screwed with such bad start, had Gandhi been replaced with some aggressive tendencies, that AI could have been transformed into a super AI that none of us may be able to handle.

So given the situation, you've made the right adjustment and the game should be a lot easier from here on out.

Absolutely as Lymond would say
And you are not evil, keep the fun going and stay around

Ah... but I can't see @lymond bullying his way with his settler into AI land and creating chaos. His peaceweight, I am sure, is higher even than AI Gandhi. ^_^

I hope to keep the fun going again also. ^_^

 

[Fish Man]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

I guess you moved your scout east to reveal that gold which is absolutely hard to resist in not settling on the marble at that point. But I'd have to agree that stone is more beneficial for the early game wonders, and despite priests not being appreciated much, I think settled priests can be extremely overpowered.

Archery before Bronze Working or Animal Husbandry... ^_^ Without foreknowledge of map, perhaps the safest way to go, considering Fred starts with Hunting.

@Fish Man

Spoiler :

Once JC is out of the way in one way or another, the other continent AI are indeed problematic, but it is a saving grace that it happens to be Gandhi that has that much land. And good land at that too. Had it been someone that loves to build units in decent numbers (We don't even have to consider unit spammers like Mehmed), it would have been much harder. Considering how Mansa got screwed with such bad start, had Gandhi been replaced with some aggressive tendencies, that AI could have been transformed into a super AI that none of us may be able to handle.

So given the situation, you've made the right adjustment and the game should be a lot easier from here on out.

Ah... but I can't see @lymond bullying his way with his settler into AI land and creating chaos. His peaceweight, I am sure, is higher even than AI Gandhi. ^_^

I hope to keep the fun going again also. ^_^

Spoiler :

Thanks for the compliments!

Regarding the Gandhi situation - if it was someone truly dangerous, like Huayna or Justinian, I likely would've taken on the other continent before preparing for a final showdown with tanks and nukes. It still would have been winnable, I think...just in another way, and far closer. A few years ago, I pulled off something like this against a runaway Huayna Capac who, despite having "less" cities, was far stronger and more of a threat, with his massive unit spam and 1550AD gunships.

Honestly, the best thing about this game was that by some stroke of miracle, everyone was following a different religion. Lincoln built Shwegady Pegady, I think, and switched into free religion, but everyone else followed something different - Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, and Christianity were at play. This meant everyone remained only pleased or even cautious with each other (with low-peaceweight Pacal being a useful hate magnet), and no monopoly techs were being thrown around like free candy (and the only person who could do that was severely limited by his start).

 

[Fish Man]

This is Prepare to Die, second attempt.
I played a whole turnset yesterday, as far as 3040 BC, and then I had to stop to control the urge.
The time is now 2880 BC (turn 28). I believe this is the turn :

Spoiler :

The turn I DoW Rome.

My second Archer has just been done ; for some reason, it is also named Archer 1. I'm now starting on a third.
Rome has 2 workers but I cannot claim the other one.
I flipped 4 turns ago, because a settler+archer party appeared 1E of the rice, going for the hills 3-4 East of Antium. Could I declare and prevent the settling ? Erf... No way to steal a worker, then. Hence the pause.
Fortunately, I realized I could delay a little. The settler party went 1E again and 2 barb archers appeared from the South-East. So, now, Rome has a settler party somewhere in the fog in the floodplains area, harrassed by barb archers.
I'm still too weak and out of position. I think I have to make allies of the barbs to do Rome some damage. Preventing a city is a good start, now if they could injure some units for me to finish off, that would be great.
I'm starting with 3 archers, here, because, ideally, I can prevent Rome from ever settling their third city At least not hilltop - I want those hills for myself. There is distance and a lot of land to cover. This is not easy. Still, this is the plan.

Turn 35 : I believe this is working out (you better believe before it all slips out of control) :

Spoiler :

No further damage has been done but invisible damage :

Caesar's worker is way out of position, SE of the ivory. I hope he gets enslaved by Ice Archers. My warrior has kept harassing it, limiting the number of chops/roads it could complete.
Julius now has lots of Archers (almost 10) but he still hasn't used his settler.
My northern archer is heading for the gold tile. Most important tile to pillage.
The worker has been escorted back. I've revolted into Slavery and am 2 turns away from my settler. I want to claim the copper 1st ring. It is conveniently outside of Antium's 2nd ring culture. It will all get easier if I can get a couple of Woodsmen Axes.

Julius doesn't seem to have a lot of Attack Courage (I haven't checked the value). My warrior survived a turn by Rome with 5 archers in the city : he wasn't attacked.
This is both good and bad. The bad thing happens when he tries to overrun with huge numbers, rather than consistently crashing small numbers.
He has Sailing. I hope he builds more galleys, now

I'm starting to have ok map control with 2 forward archers. The 3rd stayed back for barbarian control.

With a little help from my friends (T25) :

Spoiler :

Go, my minions, go ! I have faith in you ! Release the kraken ! Lay waste to civilization ! All roads lead to Rome but none shall be paved ! Do my bidding and forbid the name of Ravenna from ever coming into existence !

^ This is the binding my time part I was referring to. My warrior danced on those hills for a turn. The two barbarian archers making their appearance is a blessing from pagan gods.

We can all see how difficult it would be to deny the 3rd city without their help and how crucial it has been to reaching my T35. You can also understand how awkward the situation was on T24.

This makes me realize I probably don't want to fogbust the northern floodplains at all, so more spawns of the nether powers shall appear. In fact, I want barbarian cities, now.

I finished my game - may talk about it later today.

In the meantime, holy crap, this is brilliant.

Spoiler :

 

[Fish Man]

The trouble starts like T37. I can't seem to play more than 5 turns straight on this map without losing my grip.
It's always like that, you know ? You choose a nice saving point and two turns later Genghis DoWs you or some other terrible thing happens ^^

Can't get DOW'd if you DOW the other person on the continent yourself

Spoiler :

 

[Gwaja]

Spoiler :

The first hurdle has to be getting JC out of the way. If seeking a peaceful way to coexist with him, we'd better get him to at least "Pleased" as a "Cautious" JC 100% guarantees his DoW on us if we don't do that to him first. Even though getting him to "Pleased' and attempting to somehow peacefully coexist with this dude may be possible, this surely could result in creating a very big JC, sometimes even with a vassal of his own creation. @soundjata's game looks scary with 16-city JC. For peaceful approach, gifting him a city is, without a doubt, an absolute necessity. The OCC approach is interesting and fun, but then, it may come at the expense of necessary expansion. The Great Wall is probably the most important wonder, as pointed out earlier, that the Great Spy can kickstart a spy economy that can sort of replace a tech trade issue of semi isolation, as well as the elimination of barbarian headaches that can go out of control. It is my belief that if the tiles near the capital weren't so badly filled with desert, I am sure JC would have had no trouble boxing us in completely in that corner of the continent. Even then, just the simple fact that we are the only civ that this crazy maniac can pick on... still leaves good probability of being DoWed, even at "Pleased" with very little time for us to prepare, such as "1-turn red fist before DoW" nonsense. Getting him to "Friendly" takes too much time and too much effort to put into just one AI opponent without even knowing the others.

This leaves the aggressive approach, but there is also another problem in that, the only reliably close strategic resource is the horse. we could try building a settler immediately upon settling the capital, and then settling on the river hill site next to the other horse, which blocks JC's expansion east and forces him to settle his 3rd city northward instead of eastward. This almost always leads to JC DoW at some point, but it also means getting close to the copper. Still, hooking all that up and creating an army takes time, and by then, JC is already running around with praetorians with multiple number of cities.

@Fish Man's capture of Rome with just warriors was brilliant; I am not sure I could replicate that myself. Choking JC out of his metal and horse with warriors early, in combination with worker steal may be the best option, though barbarian problem sometimes goes out of control and that can be a hindrance. Hence, earlier JC is out of the way, the better and easier this game gets, and we can play out the game until Optics like a peaceful isolation game at least, without an aggressive and large neighbor right on out doorstep and not even being in control of our own continent.

@BornInCantaloup: On your OCC approach, aka "The Funk": did JC end up DoWing you and if so, when?

 

[Gwaja]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

Whether it is a bug or not, Turn 75 screenshot shows no red fist, which means 5 turns was all it took for JC to DoW. Granted, he was only at "Cautious" but... you would have to surely gift him a city in order to make him "Pleased" which also means you probably may have lost out on a wonder for sure. I am sure you had no metal and no horse, so only archers. That sure sounds like pain indeed.

I am more interested in the peaceful approach and how one could go about it RELIABLY without any luck factor, but I am not sure it is even possible. Taking JC out as early as possible may be the only way to go forward.

 

[konata_LS]

Very interesting gameplay and attempts by several top players The discussion in this thread is also inspiring for lurkers at lower levels

Spoiler :

But, if we don't have map knowledge, how should we handle semi-isolation with warmonger?

For example, the player sits in front of the computer, thinking "let's have fun with BTS today", and starts a new game in a Fractal map, after some turns finds out it's semi-isolated with Shaka or Genghis.

In this case, we don't know we're semi-isolated on T0. It takes some turns to "realize" the semi-isolation. Assuming it's Deity level. Usually how many turns is it required to draw a conclusion? Around 20 turns? 30 turns? or 15 turns?
I assume it's Deity, because it's quicker to make such a decision when Deity AIs start with free scouts. On lower levels it might be tricky. In an off-line Monarch game I thought I was semi-isolated with AI Pericles, but around 500BC suddenly Giglamesh showed up in the northern jungle - it was not semi-isolation.

After confirming the semi-isolation, if we keep playing the game and don't reload from 4000BC auto save,
how quickly should we react to the semi-isolation?
how should we plan the attack? Elepults, HA rush, or warriors/archers choking?
if the attack (example: we have to tech HBR and construction for Elepults) need some time to prepare, should we gift a city to the warmonger so that we don't get attacked before we're ready?

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Spoiler T141 Struggle Bus/ Spoilers: Foreign Contact :

Full disclosure, I played this map with full knowledge of the map, and tried so many stupid strategies.


Start: settle on stone, worker --> warrior --> size 2 Settler. Tech: Agriculture, Bronze Working, Archery, Masonry.

T24:

I set out with the goal to steal a worker and destroy the gold mine --> looking to delay Caesar's path to Praetorians as much as possible.

Some AI code rules:
1. on turn of war declaration, AI moves are already set. It's possible this is true aside from an attack courage override criterion.
2. If there is 1(+) archer in the city, they will not risk hitting your warrior.

Using these two rules, I capture two workers, amble over the gold mine, and suicide the warrior to pillage the gold mine.

T44:

I chop 3! archers - 1 to block Roman settle (AI rule -- will auto-path unit to anticipated settle spot), 1 to pillage Iron that Julius has not discovered yet, and 1 to choke Antium. It's really too bad Antium is the founding site for Hinduism.

I also pre-chop the Great Wall, and finish it just as barbarians come knocking. Now it's "2" vs 1.

T51: Mission destroy Iron mine complete, assisted by a helpful barbarian archer.

T70: I settle aggressively forward, relying on double hill archers to grab river floods. Hamburg is working on the Pyramids in the back, assisted by chops. I step forward on the forest hill whenever Julius tries for the copper, but I have to alternate with barbarians so they don't accidentally hit me instead.

A great spy is born - looks like it's time to use some spies.

T105-T118: Turning point

Figuring out tech was fairly straightforward, Alphabet needed for stealing Iron Working/Mathematics/etc. With Optics in mind, I decide to tech Aesthetics since skipping Fishing allows a Machinery bulb with a scientist. If a second great spy appears, I'll just steal more tech.

What was incredibly annoying was Caesar's Iron/Ivory cap. Despite blocking Iron, once he finished Construction, Horseback Riding soon followed. Consequently, my solution to stopping both was to stream in double hill archers from the hill range above Antium to loop around Rome and stop workers from working either tile. This took me 3 tries to figure out. On top of that, my Iron was in the middle of nowhere, but by 400 BC, I finally manage to steal Iron Working and start streaming in Swordsmen to permanently disable both resources.

With spy missions, cities begin to fall.

However, I could not steal much as the second great person was a scientist. As a result, I take a massive peace deal to acquire tech: (Math/Currency/HBR/Polytheism +3 turns of MC). I bulb Machinery.
).

T132: Someone mad lad discovers Liberalism in 400 AD. At least my Caravels are out. I declare a second war on Caesar as I realize I messed up and need the ivory/silver resources. This timing is decent, as it allows Caesar to settle a tundra city for future tech stealing. However, I take a golden age with the 2nd Great Spy instead of building Scotland Yard as it's more pressing to obtain a Scientist to bulb into Astronomy.

T141: I Discover Astronomy in 600 AD, which I thought was pretty decent all things considered. Unfortunately, despite a marathon campaign, almost 4 people already have Astronomy, making trades limited. I really wish Hinduism had been founded on another continent so they could've had some holy wars, and Antium wouldn't have been a pain to take.