Preventing espionage/terrorism

[shotdown08]

Use democracy if you can that I believe is the only way to make you cites bribe proof. On the prevention of any other action i guess you need to just fortify spies in your cites

 

[Itzcoatl]

Are fortified spies really more efficient in preventing ennemy spying and sabotage attempts than normal "waiting" spies ?
I did have some of my spies tweaking ennemy's attempts but they weren't fortified. I thought fortifying would only have an effect on defense points when they get attacked by an ennemy offensive unit. Stormerne, did you give the numbers for fortified spies or normal ones ?
By the way, it is nice form you to have given them.

 

[oryx]

Originally posted by Stormerne:

Fortifying spies/diplomats in your cities will only HELP prevent enemy civs from stealing advances etc. The exact chances are:
* A Diplomat has only a 20% chance to prevent enemy espionage;
* A Spy has 40% chance;
* A veteran Spy has 60% chance of stopping espionage.

I don't quibble with any of these percentages, but I think that they don't apply to space race advances: space race, plastics, superconductor. It seems like there is a zero percent chance of stopping the theft of those.

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<FONT size="1">"There is no tiddle-taddle nor pibble-pabble in Pompey's camp." -- from Henry V</FONT s>

[This message has been edited by oryx (edited June 14, 2001).]

 

[starlifter]

OK, here are some clarifications of some hilarious assumptions about spies...

1. Fortifing a spy in a city has no effect on the spy's ability to stop enemy spies/diplomats.

2. Leonardo's workshop will upgrade all diplomats to non-vet spies.

3. A courthouse will increase the cost of attempts to revolt a city, but not double it. A courthouse actually reduces the distance to the capital by half, when figuring the incite/revolt cost. Here is the math:

Cost = ((Treasury + 1000)/(CapitalDistance + 3)) * CitySize

A courthouse cuts the Capital's distance by half, which will increase the cost by roughly 77% for a city that is 20 from its capital. For a nearby city that is 6 squares away, the courhouse will increase the incitation cost by 50%.

Under communism, it is always 62.5% (dist=10 for all cities). If the civ has no capital, the courthouse will always increase the cost by 84.2% (dist=32 for all cities).

Use a spy to kill the courthouse and save money!

 

[Leo's Workshop]

I think all this sums up to- aren't Spies great? Definitely my favourite unit- who needs messy transports full of units when a few well placed spies will save me time if not money...

BTW, any news on spies/diplomats in Civ3?

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by starlifter:
Under communism, it is always 62.5% (dist=10 for all cities). If the civ has no capital, the courthouse will always increase the cost by 84.2% (dist=32 for all cities).

Use a spy to kill the courthouse and save money!

No, max. city distance is 16.

See the link in my last post .

 

[starlifter]

Thanks, Slow Thinker... the number is indeed 16 and not 32! I double-checked because I am playing a GOTM and have a pet Viking city with no capital, and just did the comparison math based on what my spy reported.

So for dist=16 (no capital), a courthouse will increase the revolt cost by 72.7%.

Thanks for that catch, slow thinker!

 

[Conditional Zenith]

Originally posted by starlifter:
1. Fortifing a spy in a city has no effect on the spy's ability to stop enemy spies/diplomats.

In other words, all the dip/spy nedds to do is be in the city to reduce the chances of technologies being stolen. Fortifying a dip/spy has no <u>extra</u> effects.


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Conditional Zenith

you will only become strong if you obey the regulations

 

[starlifter]

In other words, all the dip/spy nedds to do is be in the city to reduce the chances of technologies being stolen.

Right... the spy can be fortified, sleeping, awake, or even just returned from a successful mission. The spy will defend the same, regardless.

BTW, Veteran status of diplomats makes no difference on the price of a revolt by that diplomat. However, vet status does reduce the cost of a spy revolt, as explained by folks in an earlier post.

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Conditional Zenith:

In other words, all the dip/spy nedds to do is be in the city to reduce the chances of technologies being stolen. Fortifying a dip/spy has no <u>extra</u> effects.

I believe it should be true, but...
Did anybody prove it?

 

[starlifter]

Since it is a statistical liklihood of an event's outcome, I don't know if there is a closed-form proof... however, I have tried setting it up and putting a sleeping, plain, and fortifed spy in 3 enemy cities, then using 50 spies against each, noting the outcomes. That was a year ago. I don't recall the exact numbers, but there was no statistical difference once the sample size was large enough.

A closed-form proof would likely be a copy (or decompilation) of the algorithm used, which I don't personally have knowledge of.

Normally, I sleep my spies/dips so they wake up if someone bumps the city. In a coastal shipping port, I fortify them so they don't board a ship unless I want them to.

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by starlifter:
however, I have tried setting it up and putting a sleeping, plain, and fortifed spy in 3 enemy cities, then using 50 spies against each, noting the outcomes.

We used the same way of "prove" when we were looking for probabilities in <A HREF="http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=335823">Info: diplomats and spies"</A> thread. I will include your result there.

Didn't you tested more stats related to dips/spies?